Only when she wants help or the courts order her to treatment can anything be done. And this is the same for all of us in the family of alcoholics. No one can help an alkie who doesn't want it. It is hearbreaking to watch, and most important that you take care of yourself first. Maybe go to Alanon for the families and friends. Answers you seek are there.
I AM responding. You cannot do it for your mom. I am a mom and put my kids through what you're going through for years. They tried everything but until I decided that I HAD to do something because I just couldn't live like that anymore, nothing anyone said or did made any difference. It's not that no one cares; it's just that there isn't a solution like the one you're asking for. Sorry for your heartache.
... despair & it is not mine - yes meetings do the trick @ times - i ask god for help - "he" must be way busier with more urgent requests. again ? does anyone read these posts aside from staff. dislike being so self absorbed - i take care of me mum - alzheimer / dementia / puzzlement. bye for now.
The achievements I had, if I had any in the past are the result of my efforts and the help of God and many people who helped me. MI sobriety is a result of the help of AA. But I bygone achievements serve to keep sober, is the practice of the program which helps me stay sober.
I met many veterans who relapsed why they thought they had already done everything necessary for sobriety. They no agreed that sobriety is like a bicycle if you don´t ride you fall. One of the strongest experiences I know was that of a veteran who did all services, from making coffee to be trustee, have a four-day binge, spending salary of five months and smashing two cars. He forgot that he was alcoholic, he forgot practice the program; he thought that the services he had done enough.
When I get pedantic displays of erudition trying to do is when I leave the program and the people who make up the group. When I drank was very fond of making displays of knowledge that I did not have.
When you reach the group follow the same constumbre and to philosophical discourses on the steps, traditions, services, (perhaps a bit like I'm doing now) but this attitude did not help to stop drinking or start my recovery.
It was when I started to tell my experience with drinking and as empecer to make the program was when I began to start my recovery.
When I flaunt knowledge the newcomer, or give advice, never came to pass on the message of recovery, is when I tell my experience when I drank and how to stop drinking is when I get the newcomer and I can convey the message.
... the years (many years) - a a has remained true to it's purpose - the preamble sez most all. the steps help each individual. the ! traditions ! help "a a as a whole". if it is not broken & a power greater than even the entire human race backs it, then why change it ? not really a question. historically the earlier a a's had learned the foibles of distraction. for our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority : a loving god - as - we understand "him". thanks for listening - otis.
... tho i suspect this simply to be a sounding board. do others actually read these posts ? or respond to them. is this as in the b b story "join the tribe" - th@ great spirit in the sky ... meeting ? anyway today's quote - was somewhat vague. or nebulous. my thought was - to see what is called "comfort zone" as an "ever vigilant" look / study - so as not to have th@ comfort become ... complacent ! - i ask myself ok - is it comfort or complacent ? th@ 's it. thanks for listenin' - otis.
... & not a thug in my ego. i am grateful to have this forum to join (you all). tho i do not do this sober trail as directed / suggested (i e no sponsor) i do go to a regular meeting th@ i do so look forward to. this forum allows me to be real with myself & in hopes with maybe one other person who may be listening to my thoughts. i have just, after asking (camel style) god for help for this day, read my 24 hr & my day by day (god help me to be or stay clean & sober today) books. of course it could be down hill @ any time of this day. th@ is when the suggested "restart your day @ anytime" hopefully kicks in with an asking of god. tho no booze for 10 + mos. (not the first time) i am all too familiar with "the disease of the attitudes" th@ alcoholism is sometimes aptly said to be. th@ is what i must not entertain for too many minutes ! ! this writing began with the quote for the day. my "brain" saw tug as thug. a subtle hint as to where my head may be hovering. then i saw tug of heart. ! Ahhh ! rescue - then a "desire" to share. so thanks, y' all for being here. "good to see you". "it is good to be seen" ! otis.
... the spiritual foundation of all our traditions - ever reminding us to ... place principles before personalities (this totally includes mine). it has been said th@ a a is a democratic anarchy & an anarchistic democracy. O K, let me ask - most all of us do not like to be "bossed around", right ? second question; who among "us" would like to be the boss ? here is where the form of fellowship lies & breathes. i personally do not like being bossed nor do i like to be the boss. think on it. herein lies the blend of fellowship. point being - keep the fellowship cherished - realize every other person is just a little different. if there were no a a where would most of us be. easy answer - various places. "back biting" is a lose lose endeavor, right ? see ya, greetings from north central florida. otis.
If the Traditions are ever "perfected" the true meaning of Traditions eleven and twelve will be exposed. It is
HUMILITY, expressed by ANONYMITY, which is the spiritual
foundation of all our traditions. It is not anonymity itself. Bill wrote that it is humility, when he wrote
for us in the 12 & 12, but the meaning was distorted when
the short form of the tradition was published. Maybe
someone else understands this, and can explain it better.
Thanks, George P. Pittsburg. Pa.
... the other us. hey whatever is the case for your personal sobriety - your personal journey away from booze. the three clear pertinent ideas - th@ we are & th@ probably & th@ god could & would. @ times of thought - wondering what or how the fellowship "ticks". behind the broad picture - a loving god as "he" may express "himself" in our group conscience. when "my" evaluating mind / brain does the ol' quasi~oneupmanship thing - i need to look behind the scene(s). the good of a a is guided & protected by a good god, working thru co -operating people ! i was told so many years ago - th@ - a a is divine in principle. yah - whenever i get into th@ reversal of principles before personalities - then - i need to see th@ the anonymity of god's love & caring - is what is - is Where is - the positive power of a a ! there is no other place in this world th@ i have been to, th@ has this quality - god's loving power & ! people co - operating with This Power ! thanks, y'all for being here. when two or more are gather ~
I so agree with today's quote. Lately, I have been hearing about a lot of disputes within the groups in my district. Others within a group do not approve of what a member is saying. Whether it be about the end of the meeting prayer or what another member says about some opinion of a topic. Bill W. had to have a crystal ball in order to fore see the complications that arise within AA. Everyone has their own opinion and it is not our job as a group member to stop or regulate what another says. Thank you grapevine for your "Daily Quote" it reminds me of the principles of A.A.
... the grapevine quote for "today". when i read the quote - & btw - i really look forward, as a part of my good vibe day, to reading the quote. when i read the credential / conformity aspect - i said Yah - a a sure does not ask for "much". my sober brain reflected on the booze demands, tho. in an abstract, tho very seriously real way, booze Did demand conformity - drink more - constantly think more drink. credentials, well, maYbe not - tho - as they say - from park ave to the park bench or from yale to jail. credentials - booze was the poison. booze was the ruler of my entire waking & ! non - waking life. so ... in a purely distilled way, a a does allow for a freedom not found anywhere else. by me, anyway. & if i choose to be a prisoner, again, all i need to do is "pick up a first drink. "hell no - we won't go ! !
Thanks to a higher power and a group of Alcoholics Anonymous I could stop drinking. No one had been able to convince me to stop drinking, to admit the faults of character he had and I did not want to see, to try to remove and repair any damage that might repair.
I can´t fight againt my realiy, I must live with my circumstances. As the English proverb says "The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist expects it to change, the realist hoist the sails"
I am the GVR for our group, we have about 1-5 newcomers every week, we have a group subscription to LaVina & Grapevine. After the meeting I ask newcomers if they have a Grapevine... Most, if not returning again
don't know what it is, I hand them one & say you can have a meeting whenever you need or want one...
Just start reading. Our group struggles with getting trusted servants, but I hear it's been that way
for a while. Just extremely grateful I'm sober & have a home group & Love the Grapevine... We are truly
blessed to be here & to have the opportunity to help those yet to arrive at our doors... Thank you!
I like tihk that I am a important character in the gruop, that my gruop is a elite gruop,that I am a hard worker in the gruop and autside the gruop. When I made the fouth I discovered that I am afraid, I am not a important person, and I am not the best member of the gruop, I am only a member of the gruop, sometimes a poor member. I don´t want look all these circumstances, it´s too hard. when I was drinking wes worse, I am crazy and I am bad person but I think I am the number one.
When I arrive at a group in Gijon, we were 80 members in the group, six months after there were 25 members and the group continued to operate. Four years later he returned to leave two thirds of the members of the group and the group continued to operate. I have seen many veterans wear medals and merits, themselves and others, to leave and the group continue to operate; sometimes functioning better and others worse. The principles remain but sometimes we have tried to destroy them, even though the principles are to us. Sure human beings come and go, but principles go on and on. We are going to disappear, but the principles of AA are going to continue, as the group continued after all the atrocities we have committed.
My dream was to be an important character, spend a lot of money and have a woman on each side. My reality is that I am a laborer in a factory with sporadic employment, earn enough money to make a living and I am without a partner. If I do not accept my reality I have serious problems with myself and people around me. I can accept my reality as it is and be calm and happy, but if I forget and I intend to fulfill my dream again is when it will appear again my frustration, my discussions with colleagues, neighbors and family.
Use the daily quotes to announce the AA Grapevine meetings , with flyers with a daily quote to tell when and where we have weekly grapevine meetings . Thanks
I LIKE GETTING THESE QUOTES. IT'S A GOOD WAY TO START THE DAY. I LOVE BILL'S WRITINGS AND GET ALOT OUT OF THEM AND I CAN LEARN FROM THEM.
Liked the quote of the day. How can I receive a copy of the article referenced, "Seasons of Real Joy."?
I've been sober for approx. 2 months. Even though my thinking is more clear now, I have trouble in finding my purpose in life. It gets me down some days. I do go to meetings, but I feel the meetings aren't helping me. I pray every day. I have to keep busy, otherwise I feel sad and lonely.
... yup, more power to ya, my friend ! you have touched upon some useful tools, as well. prayer, keeping busy so as to not dwell on where you were two months ago ! meetings, tho you feel they do not help - they may be, tho ! useful tools, my friend. the well worn statement of 90 in 90 - to me, only means - give the sober time - time. just reflect on where you came from. i thank "god" th@ your obsession to continue to drink is ... gone. even if you think back to one month ago, you may sense some positive change ! to me, your willingness to pray is very very positive. we do not need to know who or what god is: we only need to be willing. keep on keepin' on, after all, what sane (other) choice is there ? 'nough said. see ya 'round the campfire !
So hang in there and refuse to give the body what the
body and the mind want. Stay busy. Try to help someone
else. I feel the best way to help someone else is to
encourage them to share about themselves and then LISTEN
TO THEM. Listen at meetings. There is usually someone
there who is suffering. It may be someone new or someone
not so new.
And when this miracle of recovery happens and you are
set free, remember what was helpful to you. Share that
happening (and it will happen if you do not stop going
to meetings) with alcoholics with whom you are in contact.
Follow that path and you will not fail. And someday, at
a time of your own choosing, you may want to look at the
twelve steps. It sounds like you have already completed
one, two and three. Don't let anyone cram them down
your throat. They will only choke you. You can "stay busy"
praying for others. We need all the help we can get. ANONYMOUS
Almost everyone with alcoholism dies either from it or at least with it. Prisons are running over with inmates who earned their ticket there drinking. For two months you haven’t been one of them. Perhaps what you are doing is working better than you think.
Sacrifice? what's that? Our sacrifice, for years, was that you will provide to the hat, didservices and you bought literature. We presumed to be an elite group. Then we missed that people do not share, that would not have servers and contributions to be small hat.
For many years we did not want to know anything about the people that fell, drank outside the group, or took a long time to stop drinking, nor wanted to know beggars, also people of other social class than ours, of homosexuals, of transvestites, sometimes also of women. We looked bad to those who criticized the program, when we also critiqued the steps and traditions, but could argue critics. We looked bad people who did not services, to which the expenses were charged as servers, in Spain is generally frowned on talking about money. We criticized harshly those who left the group, or came with little regularity, which contributed some money to the hat.
It took many years and much work to change these attitudes, people did not understand that AA was not a job, it is not mandatory to come to the group or be on the premises at the time and leave when I say. We are not one to impose on others you my opinions, if these were useful I not been a drunk seven years of my life. We are nothing to control others, and seek explanations from others. And it was much harder to accept everyone, me in my classism, considered in a different category. Yet we often such attitudes, but we are on track to achieve this.
Fran S, Gijon.
Beautiful message, beautiful country. Hope we can return some day.
Gary from the middle of the USA.
my name is Sam and I am an alcoholic. My father was a heavy drinker and my mother was an alcoholic. My father drove me to meetings when I lost my license. When I was 4 years sober, he asked me if I wanted a glass of an alcoholic beverage. My father's way was to drink alcohol. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Drinking alcohol no longer works for me. I feel that my father was unable to tolerate my sobriety. Drinking to excess was a family tradition. I am grateful to abstain from all contact with my relatives just for today. I had a Happy Sober Easter holiday yesterday thanks to AA. I am grateful to be sober one day at a time. Thank you for letting me share, Samuel
Bingo on Bills words once again.
Even sober alchies with thousands of sober miles under their belt don't get it often.Even after 19 or 30 years of total sobriety. "Just a couple,just this once. For sure" even then,will blast the tyrant disease wide open again.
Me and thousands of others fell for it,and were lucky if we got back to die sober. Been there.Done that.Lucked out fool ..c.k. Me.
“Personal glorification, overweening pride, consuming ambition, exhibitionism, intolerant smugness, money or power madness, refusal to admit mistakes and learn from them, self-satisfaction, lazy complacency – these and many more are the garden variety of ills which so often beset movements as well as individuals.”
AA Co-Founder, Bill W., August 1945
From: “Modesty One Plank for Good Public Relations”
The Language of the Heart
All these defects I have had as a person, and as I have conveyed the character fan group. When did the services that I always wanted to applaud and I recognize my good work, despite being a mediocre server. As someone in the group wanted to be the leader and guide of the group. I was very pleased with the service he had done, although he had done quite poorly three services. I did not feel that I was wrong and it bothered me greatly to be told it was wrong what he did.
As a group we had all these defects, which I found a good place to keep having all these defects. To meet all these defects that I liked, I got lazy in the program that made me continue and recrease with these. For many years the pride of the group prevented us from seeing that we failed. And why people did not stay, people did not stay why he was not prepared to stay or why he would not stop drinking. Since I wanted to be the leader of the group do not let others do services, or impose upon others the obligation to make the services I wanted them to do, which caused people to decide not to services or as to form other groups. What prevents the growth of AA in Spain.
Fran S Gijon.
" I have discovered a new way to learn-by shutting my mouth and listening...it is not so much what I am doing as what I am not doing. I am not talking. So I'm open; I'm teachable" My sponsor keeps telling me to "share" to talk at the meetings, but I get a lot more out of the meetings by not talking and listening to what others have to say. I am the student and they are my teachers. Sober 93 days today
"I am the student and they are my teachers. Sober 93 days today".
"WE" first word of the first step. I need to be reminded of what its like to be sober 93 days so I don't go back there after 33 years.
Talk or don't talk, up to you, but that's the deal. Hang in there.
For a long time I used to think why is "that" person here. They still had everything, ,the car the house the wife........then I realised what they had not. No peace of mind, no self belief no hope. Then I understood that this illness has no respect.....
For years we have tried to govern the most important facets of the members. We have imposed the group a huge number of rules, controlling as it ought to serve coffee. All group members disclose to us so many rules, in many cases unnecessary, incumpliendolas almost all from the time be approved.
Many members realized, based on deception, we can not, must not, control the lives of others. After many years we realized that all we can do is share our experience and that this can serve as a guide.
In the group we realized that the rules should be the minimum in order to make the group's activities. A huge amount of rules and unnecessary, may hinder or impede the functioning of the group.
I awoke at 5:00am and got up to write some stuff about recognizing why I'm fighting with my boyfriend so much. A lot of it seems to be my mouth exploding into action before my heart has responded to what he is really saying. I had just singed off to get some sleep, and checked the email. The grapevine quote of the day just arrived, complete with my hp's advice on this exact subject. Thanks.
As a 31 year sober member of AA and a 62 year old male,my experience tells me
better than any other learning tool that,if I remember what not only saved my life,
but gave me a life worth living,that continuing to practice these principles in
all my affairs will provide those new to our fellowship and those who may be still
struggling with some of lifes challenges that the program still has the answers to
any problem we might run into. Thanks Ray S
At age 74 and 27 years sober (one day at a time), I like to say that we never run out of material with this program. There is always something that comes up reminding me to apply principles of the program.
My sponsor recently helped me understand the term "working the steps." A speaker last summer provoked us with the idea that we don't work the steps, we take them. When asked about this, my sponsor said "We take the steps at least once, we use them for the rest of our lives." What a concept!
Thanks for the reminder Frank; I spent nearly 30 years doing it my way. I pray I will continue learning to use the steps daily and to practice the AA principles in all my affairs. On the road to Minnesota, Nelsie
This once intolerant,closed minded,"prejudger" of many things & active alcoholic,has been surgically altered by the steps and traditions and Big Book and Sponsors and many meeting through the years..
She never gave up her love of run-on sentences though.
That above lady who walked through the A.A. doors then; now is fighting for increased open mindedness and tolerance.and improving Her conscious contact with her higher-power.
I'm reviewing for myself, once again, that all human people and churches and other organizations aren't perfect.
It seems all start out with honorable intentions. Yet often lose their initial honorable intent.Like losing focus, dipping into greed,forgetting our empathy towards ones fellows etc.
Negative complaining and no action toward correction is what I did before A.A principles cut into my life.After change happened.Sobriety happened.
# 1 I don't want to just whine and gripe. I see it's mute to do so None of us benefit.I want to figure out further how to be part of solutions, not help carry on the problems by inactions.
#2 I believe now, we are all on one journey to get back to where we started out from.Simple.When I arrived at A.A.'s doors initially this was all a foreign language I hadn't studied yet.
I learned.I relearned.I opened my mind,kept my mouth shut much more and became privileged to keep learning sane healthy stuff instead of dying as I was from my addictions.
c.k. 3/13 Me.
Big change, really big ongoing change.Daily persuance.
coll.kenn.Me. [ :
YES !we've got 25 things right.Right off the bat.
12 Steps. Twelve Traditions.And unconditional love for new and old and slippers and those that hang in twenty-four hours a day for years in a row some how.
Fantasticallyfabuloucious bunch ,we are.Thank You.A.A.
yes. i understand that & i am willing to do the work on that
I need it,I want it,and am going to any length to get it.I got it today.
There is no easier softer way.I tried.It does not exist !
Love to all who came B 4. R here now.And to those who will come.
I like the quote about AA not for those that want it and even not for those that need it, but for those that work for it. I never hear the last part in meetings. All I know is that with 24 years in the Program, I have to work harder in case I forget "how it was".
Share my daily quote with my sponsees to help keep them centered and working the program. It centers me and helps me stay sober in the process. We all then discuss at a later time. Anonymous, Fremont, CA
I can tell if I have enough willingness because if I don't there's no action. If I do have willingness the action is sure to follow, no matter how difficult or easy it may turn out to be. If I need to, I ask HP for the willingness to be willing and it's always come to me. I pray for the willingness to let go of another addiction today, so that I can take action to stop it. Willingness is and always has been the key to the door that unlocks faith. Robbie R. 5/22/1981.
I was moved by this. I came into recovery in 1982 and relapsed after a year and have been sober ever since january 1, 1984. The gift is that my brain was not so damaged that i could function somewhat in the world I have been on disability since 1995 but can still function thanks to being sober and also lead a somewhat happy life.
ive been to an out patient program as well as a relapse pervention groups and have also worked aa for a year and a half and will be sober from drugs for two years at the end of may and two years of no alcohol in mid july...i havent been to any meetings as of late..
thanks for letting me share
I really enjoy this daily quotation:"Willingness and action"although ,to me,it is redundant.It's an action program-pure and simple.I'm an alcoholic who has a lot of trouble being honest with myself.There are many more of us in AA than we like to admit.So the only way I truly know if I'm willing is if I do it.I was searching for a newcomer one night at a beginner's meeting when I heard a white chipper exclaim:"This isn't for people who want it,it's for people who do it!"I could have kissed that ugly,stinking drunk!....wcfrank
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who
want to stop drinking. (it). A lot of people in and out of
A.A. think that a alcoholic can be seated at a table with
a steps worksheet, given instructions/directions by an
advisor or sponsor and this will get them sober. Billions of dollars
are spent every year on this theory. They are most often
no more successful than no treatment at all.
But when the patient drinks again, they blame the patient,
saying they were just not honest, or any number of excuses.
The obvious truth is that the Program did not work. It
may seem that a few are helped. But those few probably
would have gotten sober without treatment.
You have pointed out another reason for the failure
of today's A.A. We have passed on way too much of the
real responsibility of A.A. to white chippers. ANONYMOUS