Burning Desire to Share
Wed, 2012-05-30 19:57
#751
Profanity
I am also bothered by the profanity. Not for me personally, but I know it makes some people feel uncomfortable. Not every new-comer walking through the doors are coming from a profanity filled bar, prison, rehab, etc. like many of us.
For someone coming from a different background that may not include profanity laced rants, a meeting with that included goes from being uncomfortable and scary to downright unbearable.
I came into the rooms with a foul mouth and had a sponser who had a foul mouth. I related with him because he spoke my language. But he also taught me that it is all about the newcomer and meetings are not the place for that type of language because it may cause many to feel uncomfortable. It took some effort and I still slip sometimes, but you will rarely hear me cuss anymore (even outside of meetings).
Wed, 2012-06-06 13:41
#752
RE: Profanity
Mutual respect is the key to our usefulness profanity lacks mutual respect and that's what it's here for !!!!
Thu, 2012-06-07 19:12
#753
respect
for some people this is how they speak with their heart. This is their natural language I guess, this is their way of being honnest and speak with the words of their feelings. I don't like it either and I prefer if they make efforts to avoid that. But usually I hear that from only one or two persons in the meeting. I don't enjoy it but it doesn't make my ears "dirty" and nobody is wounded. I tolerate it as long as it does not happen every ten seconds and as long as it is not used in any sentence. I tolerate it when it is used to show anger when no other words come to the person's mind, because of a lack of vocabulary or because the word is the one that really describes the best their feeling.
Fri, 2012-05-25 17:10
#754
Always inclusive
As far as the Church thing goes keep in mind that Jesus sought out the lowest sinner to minister to not the Pharisees.
My home group meets in a church basement and one of the many signs we have hanging reads "No was ever offended by a lack of profanity" This said my home group is also one in which most of us wouldn't normally mix. We have men fresh out of prison, woman who have lived under the bridges along with lawyers, newspaper editors, and just every day run of the mill drunks. My point is that locker room language is a part of life for many of us. That's how they express themselves in their pier groups in the sober houses and in the barracks so how can we reject them for being who they are in a meeting. Remember Principles before Personalities.
Dennis D.
Wed, 2012-05-30 18:13
#755
Always inclusive
Recovery is about change. Change of habit. Change of talk. Change of actions. The way we talk, act, and the things we do, can lead to a relaspes.
If i am not willing to change, then i am just sober. And my life is just as unmanagealbe as when i drank.
Tue, 2012-05-29 17:26
#756
Always inclusive
We ought to be welcoming to any alcoholic who has a
desire to get well. The first tradition guards the
individual AA member's right to think, talk and act as
he wishes. I believe we have a better chance of helping
newer members if we listen to them, rather than trying to tell them how to talk. Hopefully they will learn to clean
up their language if we can hold on to them. I believe
more alcoholics are pushed away by a self-righteous or
patronizing attitude than are repulsed by profanity. Did
you ever ask those men and women who were in prison, or
slept under the bridges, if they came to our rooms on their
way down to the bridges and prison. Did we push them
away and further down by the use of profanity? Or did
we fail them by preaching to them? ANONYMOUS
Wed, 2012-05-23 18:26
#757
This seems to be a problem
This seems to be a problem with alot of meetings in my area too. I would suggest that you bring up the profanity use to those that are using it so much and not let them take away your serenity. Sometimes if we talk to someone one on one it works better and they seem to listen more. Just a suggestion and yes I have taken my own advise about my meetings and things went very well. The most important thing to remember is your sobriety and you keep that first.
Wed, 2012-05-23 17:46
#758
re: profanity in meetings
…. “That was my first A.A. meeting. I went back to that mattress and I lay down and I said, ‘I’m gonna get drunk and go out and kill that bastard. I’ll kill his wife, then kill him. No. I won’t. I’ll kill the whole damn A.A.”… Norman Y. (Extract from Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers p 183)
I’m not sure which is worse; spewing profanity or spewing pious indignation. A.A. is not a church, it’s a room full of spiritually bankrupt drunks and ex drunks handling their resentments as best they can, trying to stay sober one day at a time. I used to get wound up in meetings at what I heard, but then I realized maybe some alcoholics got wound up when I opened my mouth. That was when I learned what tolerance was; for me to be able listen to what I found was intolerable in others, without judgement, without resentment. I needed to correct what was wrong in me, not others. We claim spiritual progress, not perfection. Some of us have further to come than others. It is not for me to judge another alcoholic’s spirituality when I can’t see my own. However, too much spewing profanity does offend, so maybe you could suggest holding a group conscience on how you feel and perhaps suggest the group reads The Language of the Heart p 252-253, where Bill W. talks of alcoholics being turned away from AA by “spiritual cocksureness, pride, and aggression” “rank aggression in the name of spirituality.” I’ve seen these things come from all sides, and I think it does turn alcoholics away.
Wed, 2012-06-06 18:02
#759
RE: re: profanity at meetings
The article Bill wrote for the AAGRAPEVINE, April 1961
issue, GOD AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM: THE DILEMMA OF NO FAITH,
ought to be required reading for all AA members. The following chapter in Language of the Heart, Humility
for Today, June 1961 should also be read. Read and
study the whole book. Bill covers most of what is wrong
with today's A.A. in this book. Bill tells that we
failed perhaps half a million suffering alcoholics in
the first twenty five years, many because of our spiritual
cocksureness, pride and agression. Bill calls it unconscious arrogance. (I believe Bill is talking
about religious aggression). This aggression had already
crept into AA tradition and is entrenched in the AA
meeting of today. Most of the reason for this is the
reading of How It Works and the 24 hour book from the
podium (lecturn) at A.A. meetings. ANONYMOUS
Fri, 2012-05-25 08:32
#760
Re: Profanity in Meetings
Let me see if I get this right; those who get upset by profanity in AA meetings are showing spiritual cocksureness, etc and rank aggression in the name of spirituality, but those who are upset at reading Chapter Five, holding hands, praying, etc. are concerned that the newcomer is being chased away?
Apparently the quote from page 183, "Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers" is supposed to back up claims that profanity is acceptable. Yet on page 224 of the same book I find, "And if he was sitting at a meeting and a man used bad language, Dr. Bob would say, 'you have a very good lead, Young Man, but it would be more effective if you cleaned it up a bit.'"
Selective tolerance?
Thu, 2012-05-24 15:55
#761
Pious indignation.
Thanks for describing me so well. At least I was that way
for years. You are right. We are in the church building,
usually in the basement. But A.A. was never intended to
be a church or a religion. If any member wants to attend
church, go upstairs. Bill W. explained so much of this
stuff, especially in Lang. At a couple of my meetings the
format reads; Please avoid the use of profanity at this
meeting. That is the end of it. No one is called on how
they share. One poster reminded me that page one of
Tradition one guarantees the individuals right to think,
talk and act as he wishes.
Thanks again for writing this reply so well, not just
copying from someone else. (not that there is anything wrong
with that). ANONYMOUS
Fri, 2012-05-25 12:17
#762
Re: Pious Indignation
Religion has nothing to do with whether or not we use profanity in an AA meeting. Respect has everything to do with it. If we meet in a church, respect for the building at our disposal. Respect for those of us who are forced to listen to us. And self respect (as opposed to self esteem).
Most of our local meetings are held in churches, in whatever room the church makes available to us. Across the hall from a Tuesday night meeting, two of the rooms are use by Girl Scout troops at the same time, and next door is a bible study. On Thursday in another church the Boy Scouts share the building. I don't know of many local meetings where AA has the entire church to itself.
One Monday night the speaker described anything and everything that didn't suit her as being "f...ed up" Just outside the door several ladies were rearranging the church bulletin board, and Tuesday afternoon the group was notified that their presence was no longer welcome in that particular church. Another group has been evicted from at least two churches due to the behavior of those who attend.
I'm sure some would argue that the members of those churches are narrow minded and intolerant. This is supposed to be a program of attraction, isn't it? How attractive is AA to those folks?
Tue, 2012-05-22 23:36
#763
Trying something new
Hello, I have been in the program for six months give or take. I really want the program to work for me but I am having trouble getting some "time". I go for a few days clean then not, then I go for a few weeks clean and then throw it all away in one night. I recently lost thirty nine days and am starting over again, here it is day seven. I want this program to work for me I go to meetings daily, I have a great sponsor and we talk daily, I pray, I read, I study but I am missing something. I need to be able to "share" with someone. It does not have to be only one person and I am writing this in the hopes that maybe since I have alot of time by myself with a computer handy that this will be an outlet for me. I hope to get any advice anyone has for me. I want to be sober so bad, one day at a time.
Fri, 2012-05-25 08:49
#764
re try something new
How about trying something old? in the tenth step in the big book, it talksabout alcohol being a subtle foe and that we have a daily reprieve from alcohol.
At the end of Step 11 it talks about faith without works is dead.
At the begining of step 12 it says nothing will so much insure imunity from alcohol as intensive work with other alcoholics.
Thats just the last three steps. do the best you can with one through nine, then practice 10,11, & 12 daily and you will not only not drink, you will become happy,joyous, & free.
Good luck and God bless.
Thu, 2012-05-24 10:44
#765
re: trying something new
I had to figure out by trial and error what worked for me, not only to keep me from drinking, but also to acquire a little peace in between meetings. I did a lot of online reading of AA and non-AA materials to get a better understanding or at least workable knowledge of the principles in each step and tradition as I encountered them. There are a couple of good AA history sites which have a lot of good articles from the early days on what the program meant to those folks. Also read as much of the writings of Thich Nhat Hanh and other living Buddhists, which gave me a better understanding of what is meant by "service," which propelled me to get involved in the service work folks had been suggesting was vital to my recovery. And it has been. Happy trails.
Wed, 2012-05-23 20:02
#766
Service - Changing it up
Hi, Sometimes when I'm too wrapped up in what I want for Me, things don't go as well. When I begin to think of others and how I can help them, and then do something for someone else, I start to feel better about everything. See if there is a service opportunity at your general service office or meeting, and how you can get more involved with the program. Best wishes - Let go, let God.
Wed, 2012-05-23 17:54
#767
RE: Trying Somthing New
Have you taken the 12 steps yet. This is a requirement if you really want this program to work for you. You must take then as quickly and thoroughly as you can. This doesn't mean that once you take then you are done that's when the real work begins.
I was fortunate when I fist came in that my Sponsor's, yes I have 3, took me to a 12 step workshop where we took the steps in one day. This has laid a great foundation for me. I continue to go to that workshop every month to help other take their steps and I have incorporated them into my one day at a time life style.
Wed, 2012-05-23 17:48
#768
RE: Trying Somthing New
Have you taken the 12 steps yet. This is a requirement if you really want this program to work for you. You must take then as quickly and thoroughly as you can. This doesn't mean that once you take then you are done that's when the real work begins.
I was fortunate when I fist came in that my Sponsor's, yes I have 3, took me to a 12 step workshop where we took the steps in one day. This has laid a great foundation for me. I continue to go to that workshop every month to help other take their steps and I have incorporated them into my one day at a time life style.
Tue, 2012-05-22 17:31
#770
In Our Own Words
I notice an increasing tendency for people on this list and AA people in general to simply repeat phrases from the AA literature rather than relating their own experience with the program. One of my earliest memories of AA was of a woman speaking at the podium who talked about "contempt prior to investigation." I wasn't impressed. My thought was "people don't talk that way." AA quotes are a way of relating to people already in AA, but to me they can easily sound pretentious and often may not even be understood. I try to relate my own story in my own words.
Tue, 2012-05-29 14:08
#771
In our own words
I think that statement is half right. What I have found to be the truth for me is all I really have is my experience filtered through what I have found in this book. When we stay with the solution that is presented in this text,mixed with our own experiences, before and after then I think we have something solid to offer. In my opinion and my life, what I have found is one without the other isn't enough. Without this book I believe our message can get very watered down. Also, I don't think there is much of a better way of saying a lot that's in here than the authors of this book did to begin with. And without my experience, well, pardon the quote but "frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices".
Tue, 2012-05-29 17:26
#772
Frothy isn't appealing
I know there are a lot of people in AA who feels as you do. But I think book quoting has more to do with trying to impress other sober members than it does with carrying the message. A newcomer isn't going to understand what "frothy emotional appeal" means. Beer is frothy. I don't know how an emotional appeal can be "frothy." Do you?
Mon, 2012-05-21 15:23
#774
Sober, one day at a time
It's true. I've had 9 years sober at one time; a year sober,here and there; and many times have, went months without drinking,only to have it end in a relaspes. Partly because i stood in the way of my sobriety. But that's behind me now. I only have today. If i am sober for twenty-four hours, then i feel aa has worked for me. Because one day is all i have.
Tue, 2012-05-22 12:46
#775
One day at a time!
I entered a long term recovery program August 8,2011, my sobriety date, and the first 2 months were spent anguishing about how long term the program actually was; there was NO WAY I could stay here for 24 months. Once I found a sponsor and shared with her over and over that it was just to much for me her answer every time was STAY IN TODAY. Finally I accepted that all I HAD to do was stay for the day if I wanted to leave I could always leave tomorrow.And it worked I have now been in recovery for 9.5 months. It flew by and I am so greatful my Higher Power sent me my sponsor.
Lisa H
Fri, 2012-05-18 12:19
#776
Working a honest program
Today, i must be honest with myself. I'm a very judgemental and critical person, as far as others are concerned. I condemn others for the defects that i have in myself.
I often treat others ill, and when they retaliate, i am hurt. Like the big-book says 'seemingly unprovoked', but i know in most cases i caused it on myself.
Today i will take a very good look at myself and my actions towards others, and see where i am at fault.
Tue, 2012-05-15 16:42
#778
Letting go and letting GOD
I have come to the conclusion that if i am to stay sober, then i am going to have to get out of the way. I can't follow my own sick mind, and prideful heart.
I can't do my own thing, and expect to stay sober.
Ira H.
Abany, GA
Wed, 2012-05-23 20:08
#779
Insanity :-)
That's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing (my thing) and expecting different results (sobriety). I have to be careful not to try to work the program my may. I already tried my way and the results were a disaster. The AA way is way better :-). Keep u the good work.
Sat, 2012-05-26 09:28
#780
The beginning of your quote
The beginning of the definition by Einstein on insanity goes " You can never solve a problem with the same kind of thinking that created the problem in the first place, the very definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over the same way and to expect a different result." It our alcoholic mind and our alcoholic thinking that kept leading us into disaster. We needed a new way of thinking and acting. Thank god for the 12 steps of AA.
Sun, 2012-05-20 16:21
#781
RE: Letting go and letting GOD
Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2012-05-15 16:42.
I have come to the conclusion that if i am to stay sober, then i am going to have to get out of the way. I can't follow my own sick mind, and prideful heart.
I can't do my own thing, and expect to stay sober.
Question? Did your own sick mind come to that conclusion?
An oxymoron answer or what !!!
Mon, 2012-05-14 19:06
#783
Just want a night!!
I am so happy to have reached 99 days sober. I have been through many physical medical problems and surgeries and am actually doing great. My family life is also doing great. I have been doing great in my sobriety. We just had a party for my son with beer and wine in the house and I didn't crave the alcohol one bit. I was so proud of myself. Why is it today that I just have this strong urge to just want a night to go out and have a good time drinking. Just for a night. Of course I don't want just one drink. It would have to be enough to get toasted but I just really want it. I haven't had this urge for a while. I know that if I did it I would be right back to square one because the next day, I would probably just want it over again no matter how hungover I would be or how much I would forget for blacking out but I still want it. I also don't want to throw away all of what I worked for to date. I feel so torn and mad at myself for feeling this way. The clock is moving so slow as I am waiting for tonight's meeting. I just figured I would share now to get me closer to the meeting. I wondered if anyone else out there had the same feelings.
Tue, 2012-05-22 12:14
#784
Just want a night
Congratulations! You are not just a proven alcoholic but show great progress in being an alcoholic well on your way to successful recovery. Your story and feelings are mirrored for many of us, no doubt - even I have to admit I'm not unique, darnit - but you, by being honest and getting it out there, have taken some of the power away from the very real impulse/craving/self-sabotage feeling that you have. Embrace that honesty! I can get caught up in what I "am supposed to say/think" as opposed to reflecting what's really going on. That's bad for me, as the very secret-keeping that I am prone to, is perpetuated.... The last secret of course, was that the bottle was hidden in car/golfbag/drawer etc al. So accept your progress and try to remember that "perfection" is the enemy of "good" for those of our mindsets. You have done good for 99 days. Keep it up, stay strong and continue being honest.
Mon, 2012-05-21 12:53
#785
Spiritual Malady
I hope this letter finds you well. You most certainly sound like you understand the phenomenon of craving our book describes. So that leaves you with the other 2 folds of this disease. The obsession that somehow, some way..... And the untreated spiritual condition. I don't know the type of meetings you landed in, but if your anything like me, it isn't one that that knew how to help me treat the later 2. I was lucky enough to finally be approached by someone in whom the problem had been solved. Who was properly armed with the facts about himself. An understanding was reached immediately. I have been here a couple of times. It appears my spiritual condition can go untreated for about 2 years before I crack, I've proved that to myself a couple of times. I sponsor a guy that can make it 2 weeks,he proves it to me every couple of weeks. Under the right conditions he can make it a couple months. Maybe your threshold is about three months. Maybe not. I pray that you find that person we've described and have yourself a profound alteration in your reaction to life.
Sat, 2012-05-19 15:18
#786
YES!
I have been sober for 21 months on the 18th of this month! and I am having a moment right now about thinking of having a night of drinking! just for a night. Yes, I know that is out of the question for me but it happens to me as well. Those thoughts of my old life. I hate it and it doesnt happen often' but when it does , it tells me that I am in the danger zone! RED ALERT! that's why I am on this site right now and writing in responce to you! you see-your post helped me and in return I hope I can help you! before my 21 months of soberity, I was sober for 6 months and had that "Why not moment" and after 2 months of drinking more then I ever did before, I ended in detox to start my soberity all over and it was because of my thought"just one night" I now know to hit a meeting,read a book, call an aa member and change my toughts until this horrible thought passes and it will! these bad thoughts area reminder of the desease that we have and we can never let our guard down. My life is so much better now and to have a drink would end it in complete misery. Hang in there my strong and sober aa friend! together we can conquer this !
Fri, 2012-06-01 16:50
#787
Thank you
Thank you for your reply. It was comforting to see someone knowing what I was going through. I hate saying that my problems make me feel like drinking because that really isn't it. I want to drink because I want to drink. My problems are just icing on the cake. They just don't help the situation. I was at a meeting today and so many people were mentioning relapsing not once but multiple times and that is another fear that I am coming across because I just can't accept that right now. I just hope that the meetings and my strength keeps me sober. I will just continue the meetings and the use of this site as my tools. Thanks again.
Thu, 2012-05-17 15:09
#788
Re: Just want a night
But the seed was planted that night at your son's party. In my experience, when i'm around alcohol like that or when i joke about drinking, it awakes the craving in me. I start thinking about.
So i know for myself that i must avoid those people, places, and things, that remind my of drinking.
Wed, 2012-05-16 18:39
#790
Just for a night
You have a lot of people depending on you, so please think
long and hard before taking that one first drink. You have
at least one child who is looking to you for support. Be there and be sober. Taking a drink would be the most
irresponsible thing you could do.
Many if not most of us have the desire to drink after
the pink cloud stage wears off. I thought of drinking
after about four months sober and again at about a year.
I am ever so glad that I did not drink. I found that
what helped me the most was finding another alcoholic
or alcoholics to try to help. Offer them a ride or
just lend an ear. Some members may urge you to "work
those steps", but do not let anyone cram the steps
down your throat. You have already done steps one, two
and three. I hope the meeting helped. ANONYMOUS
Mon, 2012-05-14 11:22
#791
Resentments
I don't feel like drinking today,but i am stressed out,due to resentments that i have against others. I was up most of the night tossing and turning,yelling out in anger at past and present hurts. Angry at those who i perceive as my enemies, cursing them in my heart and dreaming of revange.
I'd pray for them awhile and i'd curse them awhile.
But i am glad that i have a HIGHER POWER , whom i choose to call GOD, to help me out. So i don't feel nearly as alone.
Ira H., Albany,Ga
Sat, 2012-05-26 09:35
#792
You get to choose
With everything that has happened to you, you can either feel sorry for yourself or treat what has happened as a gift. Everything is either an opportunity to grow or an obstacle to keep you from growing. You get to choose!
Dennis D
Wed, 2012-05-16 13:07
#793
re resentments
What helped me was learning the step 4 inventory as described in the book alcoholics anonymous.
It taught me how to work through resentments,fear, and sex problems.
Then step 10 taught me how to stay current by taking inventory daily.
No wonder AA has been copied to the tune of about 180 12 step programs. we found the answer to sex,fear, and resentment defects
Sat, 2012-05-12 17:21
#794
Doing a 90-90
I have just completed a 90 & 90. In them 90 days i just listened. I just stated my name and that i am a alcoholic. I think that i will continue to do just that until i feel comfortable saying more.
Tue, 2012-05-15 17:53
#795
Are you ready yet?
Have you ever asked an alcoholic you are trying to
help: Are you ready yet? How many of us would be sober
today if we had waited until we admitted that
we are "ready". Our first work in helping a newcomer is to
help them to become ready. I believe it harms the newcomer's chance
of recovery to ask "Are you ready yet? Or to tell anyone
"call me when you are ready". The often heard statements
Oh, they are just not ready yet, or we'll be here whenever
you are ready, prevent many from ever seeking help in A.A.
The true method is just to share what happened to
me and end it there. No conditions at all. Thank them for their time and exit. ANONYMOUS
Fri, 2012-05-18 08:47
#796
Attraction
Attraction not Promotion. If they're attracted they will come around.
Tue, 2012-05-15 17:20
#798
Doing a 90-90
I have just completed a 90 - 90. For 90 days i just listened. And when it came my turn to share, i just stated my name and that i am an alcoholic.
I heard alot of good and helpful sharing, and i also heard some not so helpful sharing. But i learned from them all.
Sharing that i am an alcoholic, in itself, was helpful to me. The more i say it, the less ashamed i am of it. No, i don't go around bragging about it, and it's still shameful for me to admit to in public. But i don't get as offended when my past drinking history is brought up.
Mon, 2012-05-14 18:52
#799
90 in 90
Good thinking...i have found that some newcomers at meetings speak way beyond experience.