It is true. A.A.gives wisdom to know the difference between dream world and real world.
I once heard asked,"Who is more blind a blind person who can't see or a person who can see and is blind". I must have an open mind or become a blind rigid person sort of speaking. A.A. is the way to come into the now one day at a time. star
Once i realized that my way didn't work, once i looked back and saw i didn't want anymore the life i was living, the destructive life of an Alcoholic was i able to accept another way. The A.A way . Alcohol and drugs were not the answer to my internal emotional confusion and pain Alcoholics Anonymous was the cure. One day at a time i show up to grow up in the hopes of becoming a matured individual. jstar.
Machado said "the reality is what it is, even if one insists on the opposite." For many years I was determined to see things as I liked, did not accept that it is different from the way I looked. It was hard for me to assume that many of my ideas were wrong, that reality was not what I believed but something very different. I had to change a lot of my ideas that I had and that I had been useful.
"When I was drinking, I was afraid I was not achieving my potential. Now that I'm sober, I worry that maybe I am."
As I read this quote tears welled in my eyes because achieving my potential involved letting go of past relations and as I let go that old master fear wrestled with the freedom my higher power granted me through the 12 steps and the 12 traditions. Knowing my destiny and living my destiny are two different things - I took this quote from the MATRIX. The truth is I never wanted to reach my full potential because to me this meant being great and greatness is so short lived. I am greedy. I want more and more of a good thing. Suffice it to say I am moving further from self and closer to God as I understand God. I am experiencing progress, not perfection. Thank you AA. Peace
"We can, through broken anonymity, resume our old and disastrous pursuit of personal power and prestige, public honors, and money -- the same implacable urges that when frustrated once caused us to drink; the same forces that are today ripping the globe apart at its seams."
So true! This is a great message to anyone who still wonders why AA is still anonymous.
Thank you Grapvine for the daily quote and hope things are getting better for you all in New York.
Corey: You really do not seem to have an understanding
of the 12th tradition. This tradition has to do with
humility. It is not anonymity that is our safeguard. Bill
concludes that HUMILITY, expressed by anonymity, is the
greatest safeguard that Alcoholics Anonymous can ever
have. You seem to continue to preach humility. We ought
to return the practice of humility to our fellowship.
Using last names when sharing at an A.A. meeting
is to ignore this warning from our co-founder. Today's
Alcoholics Anonymous is a Fellowship of Spiritual Pride
and EGO. We must return to being a humble fellowship in
order to restore our effectiveness in working with
alcoholics approaching us. ANONYMOUS
Do we know Bill's last name? Do we know Bob's last name? Come on! Did they have no humility?
The quote is from Bill W not me. I agree that when our desires for public recognition are frustrated many of us drink.
I heard once and believe it to be true that as soon as I think I have humility, I no longer have it! You may want to meditate on that for awhile.
When Bill talks about HUMILITY, expressed by anonymity... he is talking about the level of press radio and films. If we where to be anonymous at the level of meetings, don't you think there would be a clear tradition? as stated in our aa pamphlets, each member choses for themselves how anonymous to be within the fellowship. That means you and I should not tell each other how anonymous to be(humility).
As Dr Bob is remembered saying in the AA conference approved book "Dr Bob and the Good oldtimers", the tradition states the exact extent we should be anonymous. at the level of press, radio, and films. the person who is anonymous below those leves is just a guily of breaking the tradition as the one who breaks it above.
Good luck to you and I wish you all the best in your sobriety,
Corey in Mn
Corey and ANONYMOUS,
I'm relatively new to AA (3 years), and I think we overreact to anonymity. It was perfectly relevant to Bill W. who was revered as God by some (still is). But today, unless someone is making a power grab to be a public spokesperson for AA, why is it such a big deal? The run of the mill member still will not use a last name, even on phone lists where it would be very helpful. I can understand anonymity in terms of not wanting to reveal to friends, co-workers, and family that we are alcoholics. But I think we go way overboard. Here is an example: I have a friend who is so invested in announcing her sobriety that her Facebook page is all about her involvement in AA. Violating the tradition? Dangerous? I don't think so, unless she names others who are also in AA and don't want her Facebook friends to know.
Laughter, indeed, is a gift, and so is this quotation on this particular day -- many thanks!
If you want to hear God laugh....tell him YOUR plans
I use that was not a sick man to apologize and apologize for all the mistakes and misdeeds that by and did when I drank. I use the excuse that it was an ill to be condescending to my shortcomings. All my mistakes are my responsibility because I was the one who was wrong and who was drunk. Now try not to hurt anyone or wrong, now I try AMEND when I'm wrong. Now I responsible when I do things.
love this quote...I would have to add "try to" give it to the best of my ability, because I am pretty sure I'm not that good.
Love is a state of mind, and to prove it we make loving gestures. Because "love isn't love until you give it away"!
I would like to recieve them
love the post today. It reminds me, and I need reminding, that those daily inventories keep me balanced, staying right sized, wearing life like a loose garment. Humility.
Thanks for being here!
I love the QOD from our good Doctor Silkworth!! I really get tired hearing people justify their behavior and feelings because they are an alcoholic! One point of the program is for us to change these things, not continue in our old ways. And in the end, we are humans, and will never be perfect. But let us not use our alcoholism as an excuse to not become better. We are not Saints, and neither are we unique to the human race. Thank you Dr, and thank you God. And thank you Grapevine for this wonderful forum.
Isnt that the truth!! Although I have learned that, for me, a small period of bitching time is needed to vent and get ready to accept, or change. Sometimes 10 minutes, sometimes 10 hours, but if I don't acknowledge that I feel it sucks, the action step takes twice as long, and rarely works. Notice it, feel it, then move on: that's my technique for life on life's terms.
IT IS HARD TO TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND WITH A CLOSED MIND. THOSE WHO SHARE CONSTANTLY MIGHT CONSIDER LISTENING MORE AND THOSE THAT ARE AFRAID TO SHARE MIGHT CONSIDER BECOMING VULNERABLE BY SHAREING A LITTLE. JSTAR
I FIND IT'S A BALANCE. YES HAVE AN OPEN MIND, THOSE WHO SHARE A LOT COULD CONSIDER LISTENING MORE AND THOSE THAT ARE AFRAID TO SHARE COULD CONSIDER LEARNING TO BECOME VULNERABLE BY SHAREING A LITTLE AT A TIME .
When I first saw the steps, 3 in particular, I thought it a list of Dos and Don'ts. Robbing me of my freedom. Making me 'stupid boring and glum'.In the years since they have been the gateway to my true self. Individuality and freedom have actually increased as I apply these principles in all my affairs.
When I arrived to AA I tried impress to the people. I tried said a very important things and said a very intelligent things. All this made that I did not start my recover for several month. When I talked about my experience with the alcohol, my family, my work, I started my recover.
When I talked with a sponsor about my defects of character, I discover that I had a lots of fears, that I did not know dealing with people. I cost a lot dealing with people, but I don´t injure people now. I have fears but I try don´t be afraid.
When I stated to make service without to impress to anyone I discovered that I can made a good service. When I stated to give a answer without impress anyone I discovered that I can give a answer.
I love this saying, it reminds me that when I focus on the goodness of God, every fear and doubt disappears as a byproduct. So I don't fight my alcoholism, I just focus on God and the drinking problem is removed as a by product. This is why Bills answer to everything is always "more spiritual development". 12x12 page 114 P3. But when we are wiling to place spiritual growth first--then and only then do we have a real chance.
I make mistakes every days and now I can rectify and say "I´m sorry". I try rectify my mistakes when I know that I made it. When I was a drunk I think that I didn´t make a mistake, and when anyone made a error I was never a guilty.
When I drank too the barman was the guilty because he lived for drunks. When I didn´t go to school, the teacher was the guilty because he hated me. I drank because my family misundertood me, I drank becuase people didn´t want stay whith me. I drank to celebrate that I pass the course, and I drank becouse I had had a problem at the work, but I was never the guilty.
when I was three years in AA I made the eightth step I said I´m sorry to same people that I had damaged them. Since this moment I have tried rectify my mistakes when I know that I made it.
I can say nonsense for two hours, but that does not get the message. when people hear me say things consistent, I see me behave properly and dress looks good, then I'm taking the message.
The things that Bill writes is the way he keeps things simple.
I only can resolver my troubles today. I can´t resolve yesterday´s troubles because yesterday is not here yet. I only can resolve tomorow´s traoble when they came. I should resolve today´s troubles.
For years I and my family remember the yesterday´s problems, sametimes circunstances of several years ago, but we achieved only suffer further, I must learned to forget.
For years I thinking abaut future´s problems but sametimes the problems don´t came, and sametimes the problem was easier than I think, but always I couldn´t make anything before the moment whith the problem came.
When I meet AA I Recived any more important than a word, I recived a hope menssage. I have a solution for my trouble if I want use it. I met people who could practice this solution and had a new life.
"I do not agree that the newcomer is the most important member at any meeting ... Equally important are those old-timers who showed me the way, and any middle-timer who may be today suffering. If newcomers are indeed the lifeblood of AA, old- and middle-timers are its skin and backbone."
New York, N.Y., June 1970
From: "Fifth Tradition"
I Am Responsible: The Hand of AA
Here Here!!! I am in agreement with this quote. When I was new, the old-timers said to me, "Take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in your mouth." This is part of my story, and although I was not to happy with hearing that, I got the message to listen. After all, my best thinking got me here.
I agree that the newcomer should listen & learn. I also agree that the only wrong question is the one unasked!
The newcomer is not the most important person in the room,
and ought not be told such a thing. We all come together
as absolute equals. I have heard that others have been told
to "take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in your
mouth". I am grateful that no one said that to me in the
beginning. Actually I have never heard anyone say that
to another member at a meeting, in over 10,000 meetings.
I believe we can boost the EGO when we tell a newcomer
that they are the most important person in the room. They
are at a critical point where the EGO is deflated, and
the EGO needs to remain deflated.
When I hear someone say "my best thinking got me here",
I consider that a good thing. What better place to be
for an alcoholic.
In my humble opinion, every day we are all beginners. Sometimes especially at "Beginner Meetings" I feel that the person who may be walking in the door for the first time feels scared, ashamed, worthless, and truly have "the gift of desperation". They may need to speak in order to let us know who they are so we can best make them feel "comfortable". Once they have been around even a few days with a group of caring, nurturing, recovering alcoholics I have personally seen newcomers listen intently.
I enjoy "Beginners Meetings". They give me the Blessed opportunity to identify the people that I need to help immediately. One small action of kindness sometimes can bring a world of hope to someone. From my understandings of all my reading, that is how Bill saw it. God Bless
(Page 85 paragraph 2 big book). It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action & rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of GOD's will into all of our activities. " How can I best serve Thee-Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will. I believe that the only difference between the newcomer & the old timer, is the amount of time in recovery. This tells me that all that I have, is one day at a time. Getting out of it, what GOD's will for me is for me. & How much I remove my self from self & let GOD's will guide my daily activities.
we need them all to Pass it On
I think everybody are equally important in AA. The newcomers are important because they are the reason why we are here, the middle-timers who are making the services, the old timers who show the way and share their experience in the programme. I always listen that everyone have the same importance in AA, it was a sorprise for me, a few month ago, listen that the newcomer was the most important people in the meeting.
I don´t know who is most important the person who asking for help or the person who pass the menssage of. I am important when pass the menssage but I can only make it if I have got someone to talk to. In Spain the people said that Two people don´t arguing if one don´t want.
The reason I think newcomers are the most important is not so much that they remind us middle and oldtimers where we came from and where we could be but also because without them we would have no one to give our recovery away to! We need them as much as they us. It's a we program. Robbie R.
Without them I would not be able to stay sober. Thank you newcomers!
I'm still learning not to run. When we as ;human beings,don't want to face certain situations. We run and as we start a new begining in our lives. Some of us don't want to deal with life on lifes terms. I'm gonna keep this on I. Being in a facility for 6 months with others can suck at times, but I've learn that us humans have different pesonalities. I can't run everytime things don't go the way I planned. I can't expect people to change their behaviors over night. That it takes time and practise to change our behaviors and our way of thinking. That no matter what happens, I can't run from myself. I' ve learned to stick and stay. That this to shall pass. It's about making the right, positive choises not only for myself but so I can help others in the future. Today I will hang on in their, so I can get better to help others in the present and future.
"I can't expect people to change their behaviors over night".
What you said about "we expect others to change" made me realize that I am so guilty of doing this. I had 2-1/2 years of sobrity and because of a medical issue I ended up back on one of my drugs of choice (alcohol and all drugs are my choice). I have five days sober and a second white chip. I expected everyone to change their ideas and understand "why" I relapsed. The bottom line is that once I had a taste I couldn't stop, nor did I want to. I didn't rely on my Higher Power, I didn't talk with my sponsor, I didn't tell anyone. I simply didn't want to stop.
By only God's grace my drug connection ran out and I was left with only withdrawl and God. Thank you "still trying to hang on in there" for your thoughts. It made an impact on the outside. If I were to get what I really deserved I would be in there with you.
AA Member since 12/10/2009 TGO
Thank God none of us really got what we deserved! Keep coming.
I remember two people who didn't stay. One killed herself, and the other died alone in a trailer. She left two teenagers, and he left children and grandchildren. They were both wonderful people and our community was deeply saddened each time. This was in the 1980's, and I'm grateful that many of the people I got sober with stayed. We all have 30+ years.
They may have had to be sacrificial lambs.some people have to die so others. Can live.its a hideous disease.pray for their souls.god bless y for caring
I have asked another question for several years now. Why
didn't they stay? I am sure there are some who stop drinking with the help of A.A., and stay stopped after
leaving the fellowship. But I am convinced that their
lives are not as happy as could have been had they
stayed. Many resume drinking, and lead miserable lives,
and die early deaths. Again, why don't they stay? We have the best
coffee in the world, a quality never before tasted,
the nicest friends anyone could ever meet. We are
free to come or go. No rules to follow. We are a
spiritual group but we do not push religion on anyone,
new or old. We only stress spiritual progress as being willing to improve ourselves as far as becoming more Honest,
Pure, Unselfish and trying to be more Loving and
tolerant of others.
We ought to have 8,000,000 members in Alcoholics
Anonymous, at least that many. We have just over two
million members. We grew continuously for over five
decades. In the third and fourth decades we started
to make mistakes, distortions, what Bill W. called
blunders. These Blunders began to effect our effectiveness in helping other alcoholics in the fifth decade. A.A
moves at a slow pace. It took a while for these mistakes
(dogma and distortion) to take hold and damage A.A.
These mistakes have been covered extensively on
the I-SAY FORUM. We have been "spinning our wheels",
churning", for two decades now. We may never reverse
our mistakes. (notice, I said our). I played a role
in the distortion of our fellowship. We changed it
from a fellowship, to a Fellowship, just another
TWELVE STEP PROGRAM, only one of many such programs.
We do not need to "reach out" to find the suffering
alcoholic. They are still approaching us each year
by the hundreds of thousands. We are gaining about
15,000 new members a year, due to the large members
approaching us. We need to "reach" them after they
come to us for help. How do we really reach them?
Again, the answers are on the I-SAY FORUM. You will
have to wade through the nonsense to find the truth,
but I am convinced that it is there. ANONYMOUS
"Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less."
Daily quote, Sept. 9, 2012
Thinking of myself less, came out of years of service to others. When I began doing service work, it was just that...service work...and when I was finished with a step, or a sponsee for the day, I was relieved and ready to rest. It is not like that anymore. I am of service because that is who I am, it is now all I know. When I start my day, I do not think of how I can be of service, I just am. It is no longer part of me, it is all of me and I am forever grateful to the program of AA for gently guiding me to this place of inner peace and happiness.
todays quote ""Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less."
is absolutey correct. Thanks to AA for my sobrity.
AFter 11.5 years, I have a wonderful life. It has not been through resting on my laurels, thats for sure. Its about contstant vigilant seeking. Seeking daily, hourly, minute, seconds. What I focus on in my life will govern my life. I am what I put in. If i put in God, I get out God, if I put in crap, I get out crap. The work I do on the inside, manifests itself on the ouside. I have been reborn as it says in the 12/12. As I quit acting on the character defects of my old self, and act on the characteristsics of God, I will become more God like, ODAT. Gods the answer what is the question.
This was a breakthrough concept. We now know this is not an "allergy" as medical doctors use the term. I am not allergic to alcohol...I respond exactly how everyone would respond with varying differences in quantity consumed. I just can't turn off the drinking and stop at a "normie" level. But this is an example of what I hear at meetings too much...misinformation and dogma. I have shared my ideas about how this is a non-allergy at meetings, and I was met with a cool response, or no response. This program does not attract critical thinkers, or at least I haven't found a meeting that does. So much is said that does not make any sense at all, but we are directed to be respectful--a good thing. Here's what I heard the other day: A woman trying to cut down on sugar prayed to God, asking him if she could have a cookie. God replied that yes, it is OK to have a cookie. So she had a cookie. Or the woman who said God put her (abusive) boyfriend in her life for a reason, and she is doing God's will to put up with the abusive boyfriend. Where are those meetings where AAs have a modicum of common sense???
You write: I respond exactly how everyone would respond with
varying differences in quanity consumed. Then you write: I
just can't turn off the drinking at a "normie" level.
I, as an alcoholic, do not respond to alcohol like
a normal drinker. For me, the first drink starts a
craving, desire for more and more alcohol. Dr Silkworth
called it an allergy. That is good enough for me. When
I introduce alcohol into by body, I get severe,
predictable symptoms. Thus, I ought to stay away from
liquor, peanuts or whatever I find I am allergic to.
My recent experience with aa agrees closely with yours.
After 22 years, I am strongly considering quiting something that I once held very dear.
Ole Bleedin Heart