Burning Desire to Share

On 5/18/2013 someone posted on this thread Bill’s warning about the danger of AA becoming some sort of new religion. The author tries to make it sound as it was so important that he wrote about it three times. Looks to me he said it once during a speech when AA was twenty years old and he was turning over control to an elected board. In a Grapevine article in 1963 he suggested re-reading it and Language of the Heart is simply a compilation of Bill W’s Grapevine writings. In total, that’s once. I suppose a person could multiply it times the number of copies in print but I don’t. It’s once. The poster goes on to say that AA has become some kind of religion. I don’t know what the mean by that and it is certainly not my experience.
The actual text supposedly referred to in Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age is in two parts. First on the bottom of p 231, “As a society we must never be so vain as to suppose that we have been the authors and inventors of a new religion. We will humbly reflect that each of AA’s principles, every one of them, have been borrowed from ancient sources.” The second is in the footnote on 232, “…Nothing, however, could be so unfortunate for AA’s future as to attempt to incorporate any of our personal theological views into AA’s teachings, or tradition…”
Taken together Bills saying AA is not a new religion and it is not limited by his or Dr Bob’s personal denominational beliefs. By the time the chapter concludes two pages later Bill has made reference to God eight more times. He just includes God mater-of-factly, he doesn’t explain or justify. For Bill Wilson belief in God in AA is simply a given. Something calling itself AA that doesn’t include God is outside of his mindset. If someone thinks they can develop some kind of secular version of AA, I don’t see them getting any justification or encouragement from AA founders because it simply isn’t there.
If you don’t want hear it from AA founders then take it from the New York Court of Appeals:

“..the religious-oriented practices and precepts of Alcoholics Anonymous …”

“…the state has exercised coercive power to advance religion by denying benefits … to atheist and agnostic inmates who object and refuse to participate in religious activity (AA)."

AA is is about God ladies and gentleman. In the words of the Eagle’s Don Henley and Glen Fry “Get over it”.

Please tell me why you use the names like, Dr. Bob and Bill W in the today's Quotes for Today, when their teacher was Jesus. I guess what I really want to know is why is Jesus's name like a bad word around A.A.
For me He has all the answers. Is it because there might be a New Comer in the room and we don't want to scare him or her away, I don't think so, or else we wouldn't mention God. If you never read about what Jesus said ? Please check it out for your self and please don't listen to close mined people, sorry I mean don't take to heart what some people say about Jesus

Charlie B
Peterborough, ON.

I can relate to what you've said about your relapse / slip. I too had a pretty long time of sobriety and then, like you, "at a totally, surprising time" I had a couple of glasses of wine. Gradually, like you, I went "back to my ways, slowly but surely."

One thing I found helpful was the essay Slips and Human Nature by Dr. Silkworth (the doctor who wrote The Doctor's Opinion in the Big Book) which the AA Grapevine published in 1947.

Dr. Silkworth compares an alcoholic's relapse / slip to a cardiac patient's and a tuberculosus patient's relapse / slip. What I found most interesting is Dr. Silkworth's comments on the thinking that occurs before the relapse / slip. I liked how Dr. Silkworth ended the essay:

"In any event, the psychology of the alcoholic is not as different as some people try to make it. The disease has certain physical differences, yes, and the alcoholic has problems peculiar to him, perhaps, in that he has been put on the defensive and consequently has developed frustrations. But in many instances, there is no more reason to be talking about "the alcoholic mind" than there is to try to describe something called 'the cardiac mind' or the 'TB mind.' I think we'll help the alcoholic more if we can first recognize that he is primarily a human being - afflicted with human nature."

Reading Dr. Silkworth's essay after my own relapse / slip helped me to stop beating myself up and feeling like such a loser.

Dreamed one night that I passed away and left the world behind. Started on down that lonesome trail, some of my friends to find.
Came to a sign on that trail; directions it did tell: Turn right to go to heaven; keep left to go to hell.
Well, I hadn’t been too good on earth, just a hopeless boozing rake. Knew there at the cross roads the path I’d have to take.
So I started down that rocky road. Yeah, the one that leads to Satan’s place. I shook within, not knowing, just who or what I would have to face.
Satan said, “What’s your name, my friend?”
I said, “Joe…who came to a sad end.”
He glanced through some files. “You made a mistake I fear. You’re listed here as an alcoholic, and we don’t even want you here.”
I said I was looking for some friends, and a smile stole on his face. He said, “If your friends are alcoholics, you can find them in that other place.”
So I rushed back up that rocky path till the crossroads I did see. Turned right to go to heaven, as happy as can be.
Saint Peter said, “Come in, my friend, for you and I have a birth. You’re listed here as an alcoholic, and you’ve been through h*ll on earth.”
I saw Kristen, Mark, and you all know our brother, Bill. Brothers and sisters, I was tickled. I thought you had all gone to h*ll.
So, brothers, and sisters, take warning. Learn something from this trip: You got a place in heaven if you try hard not to slip.
If someone tempts you with a drink when you’re not feeling well, just tell them you’re going to heaven, and they can go to h*ll! LOL
Joe R Wild Ones Group Wildomar, Calif

Whenever I'm feeling good/bad, etc., or otherwise, there is now a necessary reason to drink.

Hi friends/comrades,

I had 10 wonderful years of sobriety and at a totally, surprising time, decided to have a little shot of schnapps.

In my whole career as a drinker, I "never" drank schnapps. Who Knows why I picked up the little shot as part of an unprepared, unrehearsed, relapse. I can only say this - it is because I am and will always be an "Alcoholic"

Since that day, I have gone back to my ways, slowly but surely. I have gained some moments of sobriety but feel there is always something lacking. I can't seem to fill the VOID in my chest - and drinking will never allow me to do such a thing.

I have lost many things during my career as an alcoholic but never this much. I have now lost the respect of family and friends (my phone doesn't ring much) as well as my mate.

I knew these things would happen - as per the many, many, stories told by my friends in the rooms, but I truly thought my friendly, compassionate personality would save me - WRONG!!!!!!!

I am desperately trying to crawl my way back but would dearly love to hear some friendly advice (I have a
terrific sponsor and a great friend in the program but would appreciate hearing something else as well}.

Your fellow AA alumni friend, Deborah

But there are some things that meeting relationships be suffering with in common. Some relationships take stuck in peaceful coexistence, but without truly relating to each. While it may earmarks of firm on the surface, require of involvement and communication increases distance.

In the 11 lines of your statement: "I" eleven times, "me" two times, "my" one time. WE do understand how you feel. Please get back to meetings and follow the directions - Get A Home Group, make friends, Get A Sponsor. Do SERVICE, Help someone else, etc. WE'll be waiting for You. If you have trouble, for nany reason, getting to a meeting ,You might try Sober Voices, 1-712-4320075 access code is 654443# If you still have trouble connecting to God, try praying for someone else. that works for us. Yours in love and service, joe h Pennsylvania

I quit drinking two months ago. Again. Before that, I drank for five months. Before that, I didn't drink for a year. Before that, I drank for two years. Before that, I didnt drink for a year and a half. Before that, I would not drink three to nine monthes at a time but always go back to drinking for three to nine monthes at a time. This lasted five years. Before the three to nine month drinking / not drinking period started, I did not drink for six years. Prior to that I drank steadily for 20+ years.

The end of my 20+ years of steady drinking came in 1996 with an "ah ha" moment where I realized that drinking had taken over my life. I obsessed about it, I craved it. During the next 16 years, I was often free of it, sometimes for extented periods (11 years total). However, any time that I started drinking again I always got caught in the obsession and craving (five years total). I was on the merry go round.

Now I am at the point were I "know" that the obsession and craving will come back if I drink. I didn't know that after my first six years of not drinking. I really thought that after such an extended period of time not drinking, that I could start drinking in moderation. It didn't seem unreasonable to believe that I would now be able to take it or leave it. I was wrong. The ensuing years demonstrated that any time I decided to drink, I would end up drinking too much, too often. My thoughts would become dominated by the desire for the next drink and my actions and life revolved around seeking out and having the next drink.

The notion of "doing more research" is sometimes spoken of in a dispariging way. As if knowledge of one's condition should be self evident and only a fool wouldn't see it. I guess I'm that fool. Once I figured out that the length of time away from alcohol didn't change anything, I tried everything else. For instance, I tried changing what I was drinking. I thought the volume of beer I had to drink to get drunk would limit me. Wrong. It didn't work. I would go to the ligour store time and again telling myslf that this time I would drink less and make it last for the week. I would be back at the liquor store in two days for more.

I'm at the point now that I want to quit for good. Not pick up another drink. Ever. My experience tells me that I haven't been able to moderate my drinking. When I don't drink, the promises come true -- not because God has finally decided to hand them out to me in asnswer to my prayers -- but because life gets better when not drinking. Whenever I drink, the drinking takes over, along with all the crap that goes with it. I want to take the necessary actions to get alcohol out of my life permanently.

I'm writing this post because I just need to say it in writing. I guess that's why it's called the Burning Desire to Share forum. I assume that by posting here there will be advice and "suggestions" that will come my way. I'm OK with that, although I think it's more effective when AA'ers share their own experience, streghth and hope instead of quoting literature. Please try not to bang the Big Book and the 12 Steps on my head. I'm agnostic. I doubt that there is a God, whether "He" is of your understanding or mine. I'm not willing to say for sure that I know there is not a God, so I'm agnostic rather than atheist. I definitely don't think I'm God, nor have ever thought that I was God. I'm always amazed that there are people in AA who say they thought they were God and the revelation that they are not has some relevance to believing in God. I don't think I'm the Queen of Sheba, but that doesn't prove anything about her existence. I've read the "We Agnostics" chapter multiple times and don't find Wilson's arguments convincing. I've sincerely attempted to believe in God and divine intervention through prayer. I've tried the "fake it till you make it" concept. Ive tried believing in God substitutes (higher powers). It seems like trying over and over with the same results is the definition of insanity. Yet, even without a God or a God substitute, I'm not willing to give up on getting sober.

I have a lot of uncertainty and anxiety about the future but I feel better after writng this post.

If your reaching out for help.
Grab ahold Your about to experience a new way of living w/o alcohol or drugs.
Read the big book.
Get a sponsor.
Get busy trusting God.
123 go

What can be done about a group member who keeps chatting about Al-Anon as the solution and doing so while in an Open AA meeting?

I keep wondering why no one pays any attention to my explanation of our money problem.
We are paying salaries and benefits to individuals who ought not have been given the jobs
in the first place. This practice is in violation of the Powerful Tradition Bill wrote
on page S72 in the Service Manual. "The makeup..." "If it wishes".
These salaries and benefits are being paid for with money that we are not even supposed
to have: Profit from the sales of books and literature.
If we sell books and literature without profit (this has always been our goal), and only
spend money contributed by A.A. members, everything will be fine. "Spend What We Send".
Keep A.A. simple. quoting one of our co-founders. ANONYMOUS

At our last group conscious meeting, I recommended changing our format in order to better reflect our mission. My idea was to discard reading “How it Works” at the beginning of the meeting and also to stop saying the “Lord’s Prayer” at the end of the meeting; in order to not muddle up our primary purpose or bamboozle the newcomer into thinking “I must do this or die.” I proposed we should open up with the “AA Preamble” and close the meeting with the “Responsibility Statement” I was greeted harshly by the gurus but, to my surprise there were more “yeas” than “nays”! Many members had felt this way in the past but were afraid to speak up because they did not want to rock the boat. All it took was one person to do so. After much discussion the “yeas” came to believe that these writings clarify our mission better and provide a stronger foundation for our fellowship’s future. Does anyone else have a similar format? Thanks

I've been a member of AA for many years and of course getting along better with some than others.

I try to stay cordial with everyone but prefer to have socialized with some more than others.

Now...there is one member I have known for years who has started to work with me. I consider him an AA friend and don't mind having coffee with him as long as it's with a group but not alone.

However, he greets me at work with a big smile as if we're long lost friends.

I've tried making it clear I don't want to socialize with him by avoiding the break room but he continues to look around for me.

This is becoming a drag because this guy (20 plus years of sobriety) doesn't have much sense of humor but does have a bit of a temper.

I have avoided going to my Sat. meeting because he oftens corners me after the meeting on when can we have lunch together at work.

What's a good way to get this guy off my back?

when you live with the demon of fear so shall your life be filled with the whirl winds of calamity. unable to take the first step beyond the fog of the mind. But also so shall fear be your friend it can motivate you to the hieghts of life to change the world in which you live in. which do you live with ?

The Grapevine I-Poll this month has to do with whether or not your group allows discussion of "other substances" and how that fits in with our primary purpose. It would seem that the majority of A.A.'s would have a problem with Bill W. And Dr. Bob sharing their stories in an A.A. meeting because of their insistence of mentioning "other substances". Has anybody ever read "Bill's Story" and "Doctor Bob's Nightmare" in the Big Book? Both of them mention substances other than alcohol. On pages 6 & 7 of the Big Book, Bill states "A doctor came with a heavy sedative. Next day found me drinking both gin and sedative. The combination soon landed me on the rocks...." and on page 177, Dr. Bob states "It was a really horrible nightmare, this earning money, getting liquor, smuggling it home, getting drunk, morning jitters, taking large doses of sedatives to make it possible for me to earn more money, and so on ad nauseam...." How dare they! Don't they know this is A.A.?

Some might say it isn't the same thing. But try substituting meth for sedative in Dr. Bob's story and you get "...taking large doses of meth to make it possible for me to earn more money...." See what I mean? I think the real problem is fear. We really shouldn't allow fear to cause us to close our ears (or our doors) to those we possibly may be able to help. Didn't we learn in the fear inventory part of our Fourth Step that "Perhaps there is a better way--we think so. For now we are on a different basis; the basis of trusting and relying upon God. We trust infinite God rather than our finite selves."

my grandfather was one of the original AA founders in Tulsa ok. he was in AA for 32 years until he passed away in 2000. i have a t-shirt that says original group AA tulsa, OK 1990. i am only 18 i have no drinking history, but i can feel my addictive personality. so i use parts of the twelve step recovery when i am at my weakest. my grandfather gave me alot, patience, a great sense of humor and many words of wisdom to live on with. although i didnt kno him for long, i was only 5 when he passed but my mother tells me many stories of him and hilarious jokes. he was the greatest man i know and if you didnt know him, you should have! his name was Delbert.
the reason i am writing this is to see if anyone knows or has heard of him?
my mother tells me, he couldnt even go out of the state without someone saying "hey, Delbert..."
he was many things, a husband, a father, a grandpa/"cowpa" as i called him, a true man of wisdom, a friend, an attorney, but what he would call himself was powerless.
i hopw that if you read this you will know that my granpa is on your side. fighting by your side head to head with your addiction also. me aswell. your not alone and dont ever give up!

My sponsee drank 1 beer 3 different times...last time he felt the craving but could stop he didn't get drunk...he asked me to help him now to work the steps..did he relapsed or he didn't???