Heard At Meetings
I heard a man share he only sponsors people for two weeks just long enough to show the steps.Dependency was mentioned as a bad thing. I came into the fellowship 9 mths ago did the steps in 6 mths with my sponsors guidance as written in the big book and practice them every day, but should I consider not having a sponsor now? And use my friends in .the fellowship as communal sponsors I am happy with my sponsor and I believe he is happy with me as his sponsor. Confused.DavidC Norfolk UK
Dear confused David C,
We are not alone, and if you look at the AA symbol; it means unity, service, recovery. If dependence was a bad thing AA would never have grown. We need each other, sponsors, the rooms, alcoholics, 12 steps, 12 traditions, etc. Some have drank for many years, others not so many. It takes awhile to do the work, and don't do it alone. That is what a sponsor is for. I'm over 3 years sober and still have my sponsor, even though I did the steps with her, I will always have a sponsor. I hope to sponsor someone someday.
Leeanne S., Canada
Congratulations on completing the steps so quickly. Thank you for bringing this up. I've wondered this once or twice myself. I'm still relatively new in the program so feel free to take this with a grain of salt. I have a good relationship with my sponsor as well. I asked some people in the rooms a while back and what they said made a lot of sense.
For example, I don't trust many people, but someone who has my absolute trust is my sponsor. So I enjoy being accountable to the person that knows my common pitfalls and can call me out on it. Plus, I definitely get resentful at people in the rooms. So in those times where I feel totally different ideology from people in the rooms, I know my sponsor would make a solid effort to understand my side and then suggest a solution, which means more to me than i care to admit.
God bless my friend.
-Daniel C. (Peachtree City, Georgia)
Dr. Bob sponsored 5000 people in 15yrs. Do you think he was getting 5000 phone calls a day? :() If you have worked the steps, then you should have a new sponsor named 'God' right? "He provided what we needed, provided we stayed close to him and performed his work well." If you worked all the steps then you are at the 12th step so you should, be working with others, working on 9-11 everyday, and using your sponsor to help you guide others to their own awakening.
I am a little concerned that you said you took 6 mths to work the steps? Now this is a little bit of a red flag for me personally. To be clear, there is a ton of bad sponsorship going on in AA, so please don't blame anyone even your current sponsor, it is not common knowledge how bad a job AA is doing today. Sponsors are doing only what they think is right, but so many just don't have a message that helps others recover very well.
Was it you or your sponsor that delayed the process? If it was indeed your sponsor who had you wait, then you should consider finding a new person to work the steps with. I find that sponsors that have people wait, don't have faith in the steps. They will either use worksheets, or do the 4-5 steps as a sort of 'confessional'. Unfortunately we have to confess the 'exact nature of our wrongs', not the 'wrongs' themselves, this is the key to the step being effective in solving alcoholism and causing the spiritual awakening. So just reading the resentment isn't sufficient enough to effect the change necessary to solve alcoholism.
I hope you understand, the 12th step says "Having had a spiritual awakening...". If you are not sure of this 'awakening' then do yourself a favor and consider another way of working the steps. Please, Don't sponsor anyone until you are sure you know what the 'message' is. If you are under the impression that the message is 'don't drink and go to meetings, one day at a time', then you could kill someone.
We as members of AA need to help other alcoholics like ourselves get sober. We need to take responsibility to know what the 75% success solution is vs. the 95% failure solution.
I tell my guys to fire me as a sponsor if they don't have a Spiritual Awakening by step 7 or 9. The book promises by step 9 that we will have an awakening. So if someone can honestly say that they have not had this experience, it should be our number 1 goal to achieve in sobriety. Of coarse, then we have to find a way to give it away, and not by going to meetings only, but by working the steps with someone that is as hopeless as we were.
I need an interesting topic or reading for my meeting tomorrow. I want it to do with ONLY GOD KNOWS THE OUTCOME. Tomorrow is a huge day for me and I have the job opportunity of a lifetime I really really would be so grateful to get this job considering I have done nothing right in the past but screw up my life because of drinking my interview is right after my meeting so I feel like my meeting will really help me if i could find the right reading
honesty... experience/strength and hope.
First, sincere best wishes on the job. I well remember
sitting in an interview for the dream job. It was a dream
and it came true. I was able to retire after 32 years.
An AA meeting may not be the best place to seek advice.
I would recommend certain episodes of Seinfeld or Friends.
And, don't drink if you don't get the job. Go to a meeting
and mention it, without demanding to be the center of
attention. Jobs come and go but sobriety is for a lifetime.
I have heard many people say that "I definitely have another
drunk in me. But I may not have another recovery in me."
My doctor told me "You might have recovery in you. But if you
relapse, you are going to die."
Pretty easy for me to understand.
YOU CANNOT TELL PEOPLE HOW TO RUN THEIR PROGRAMS !
I do not tell people how to run their programmes rather I share with them how I run my programmes!!!
I tell Alcoholics what happened to me!!!
Then I share with them WHAT I DID ABOUT what happened to me!!!
"I'm 75 years old and have maintained my sobriety 33 years. I always remember that I have a lot of relapse in me. But if I do I may not have enough recovery."
10 minutes to 4am..Just got back from a night club..am new in AA and AA helped put me back on track to self discovery..almost 5 months now..But am so lonely..am like a new born baby coz everything that i cherished or lived has been crashed..alcohol made me likable and social..got a a job in another country so i had to move leaving everyone that i knew and family back home..i love music and partying so i once in a while try to go out and make new friends but i suck at that and i have no friends here coz the sober me cant even say hi to anyone..Plus people treat me unfairly and i sometimes wish i could express my true feelings but i cant coz i dont know how the other person is gonna take it..am just conscious like that..i have a sponsor but we are not so close like friends our relationship seems to be the kind of a student teacher sort of relationship...so am here feeling so depressed contemplating suicide/tattooing my self or cutting off my hair..something that can help me learn to live my new life happily..i feel guilty too coz it seems iam being ungrateful to God for the gift of sobriety but all i can say is am soberly not happy..dont know if i did the right thing to post such stuff on this platform but i tried to read the grapevine and had to subscribe yet i dont have that money plus am debt ridden now and i gotta take care of that..i just wanna be told this is normal coz i feel my life is an un-pleasurable experience
You're in a very rough place right now. You think you're a victim. There are no victims. Everything you see in your life you had a hand in bringing into your experience. Victims do not stay sober. You seem to be running on self will. Why don't you lower your ego and let G-d in? Let G-d do the driving. Did you finish the steps? STOP feeling sorry for yourself.
victims don't stay sober great comments
Buddy it's very common we must suffer before we get better and finally come to the revelation of an higher power not friends money or all these worldly possessions and usually the number 1 escape sex this is really helping me I just figured why they call it an escape even the name let us know we can never have it for what we escape escapes us i have no funds also like you we both must focus on what we want not what we don't have to have what we want I struggle with that as well right before I get that breakthrough bipolar thinking brings the worst scenario instead of the best scenario I pray that we both focus on God and important things in life and not so much where we Are but are guarannted beautiful ending by following the Spritual Path instead of the. Psycho Path
MayGod Bless All Amen
Drink did not drown my troubles, it just irrigated my troubles!
Change is PAINLESS
Refusing to change is PAINFUL.
Many times we need and want to control our situation but let go and let god. I read the other day you see the miracle unfold when you become the empty shell and let God fill you up hold on dont give up.
Thanks for sharing, it made me think. What did I do in the bar scene before I chose sobriety? Toward the end – drink. I couldn’t participate in anything, I just drank. Before that? Conversation. Either meaningful or trivial. When it was meaningful was I contributing or just a hanger-on expecting to be entertained by the others. To contribute, I needed to be DOING something to talk about. My alcoholism had progressed until I wasn’t DOING anything besides going to the bar and drinking. On the other hand if I was just going to the bar wiling away the hours in idle conversation it really wasn’t much of a life was it? I guess I had all of that going on to some degree. Yes, I needed new use for my time.
I don’t know how to tell you how, but I did. I had lived my life with no plans after thirty. For some reason my alcoholism caught up with me at thirty and I was put in your shoes. Thirty five years later my life is interesting, exciting, fulfilling and joyful. Every day I need to choose from a long list of desirable activities yet I don’t golf, our TV is on about four hours a week, I’m not interested in sports and have no grandchildren to brag about. Others enjoy them and that’s fine with me but there are a million other things to choose from. Life on this planet is exciting. Nothing but my attitude controls how I participate in it.
Today it was using a homeless, penniless, afoot young man I found on a Craigslist ad to help restore a settlers’ barn occupied with dozens of swallows. He was broke but anything but boring and I was pleased to provide him some work. Hope we get to a stopping place by September because my wife and I are off for thirteen days in England and Wales.
Sounds like you're living in your head too much! Stop thinking. Thinking got you where you are today. Our thinking is the problem. Stop going to the problem (our thinking), looking for a solution. It will get better, just give it some time. And try getting out of "yourself" and be of service to someone else.
My question is how does a person STOP thinking? I have often said I wish there was a switch where I could turn off the thoughts in my head that run like a hamster on a wheel. Any suggestions welcomed. I just found this site while looking up the hotline number for a friend just out of the hospital. I have always had issues with alcohol but am once again trying to figure out whether or not I fit an "alcoholic" or whether I am a problem drinker. Either way, I do have a desire to stop drinking.
There is no chapter in our Big Book called INTO THINKING!!!
There is a chapter called INTO ACTION!!!
THINK, THINK, THINK was not one of the original
three slogans. Go to meetings; don't drink, and don't think.
Too much thinking can lead to drinking. Try to help
someone else in some way. And you don't have to Find God
right NOW! Stick with First Things First; Live and Let Live
and Easy Does It. ANONYMOUS
Please read big book page 86 concerning thinking. It gives directions for the condition where you can use your faculties with assurance. After all, God gave us brains to use!
The first year was tough for me stay close to the program hit meetings everyday journal your feelings write pros and cons before making decisions. Write 3 things daily your grateful for in the morning then evening. One day at a time got me 12 years now went through all that you have going on in your head the first few months of sobriety. It was not easy but it's worth it. Work the steps in order with a sponsor. Hope you made it through it's does get better guaranteed!!!
This may be hard to hear but you SHOULD feel lonely. Up til now, your whole life centered around the alcohol scene and the only life and people you knew was that. Bite the stick hard and hang on. You will discover new, REAL friends, I guarantee it. I suffered through the same period and it's now so much better.
Remember, alcohol made you THINK you were likeable and sociable. It also is giving you those terrible thoughts right now. Hang in there, you've gotta do it for you.
Lastly, going to nightclubs at this point might not be so wise. I was taught to change people, places, and things that might tempt me to stray, at least until you have your sobriety legs under you better.
Many people feel exactly the same way as you do in new sobriety. Think of all the positives in your life then think of those terrible hangovers and lack of self respect. You have come a long way in 5 months xx
I, Penelope W., NM have 33 years clean and sober. May I suggest you stay away from any trying to travel outside of yourself to improve your life. One day at a time, one hour at a time helps. Relationships don't help. Go to a meeting a day wherever you are. Try to stay in one place for at least a year. Love yourself, not judging yourself. Thank all you do have. More comes that way. Get ahold of a longtime sobrietor and get suggestions, try them out. Stand up for yourself and own your condition giving your name for 30 days! It helps.
Only you can do this for yourself! I'm serious. If I had done it, you can tooo! God bless your soul.
hey ben there 1years hard but the more i stop trustin my though an calling my sponsor and going meetings and telling on myself just for that day in the morning i read on awakein an 24hour so u are tellin your feeling but if u put in work aint nothing going to change
Early sobriety is tough. Go to lots of meetings. Get involved. Join a group. PRAY. Ask God for help EVERY DAY. Thank God every night. Also believe it is going to get better (Faith).
If you do these things, I promise you it will get better and better and better and when you think it can't get better than that, I promise you it will get better again.
If you only go to meetings and pray, you will probably get drunk or be at least very misrible. I don't think this person is intentionally trying to hurt anyone with this advice, but this is not the solution to alcoholism.
Alcoholism is a 3 part problem, physical, mental and spiritual. There is a 3 part solution physical, mental and spritual. For physical you go to meetings, the mental and spiritual are solved by working the steps and working with others. The problem with just praying, well you can't see God until the mental part is fixed, so you need to find someone that knows how to do the steps effectively for you. I found that the best way to do the steps is to find a sponsor that helps you see the defects, or pulls the defects with you as you read each resentment. This teaches you that everytime you are restless or iritable, there is something wrong with you. It also give you a list of stuff you agree should be removed at step 6 and 7. This produces a spiritual awakening in most people I work with and the rest of the steps keep this spiritual awakening going. I only go to meetings to find newcomers to give this program I just outlined, to someone else and watch their lives change.
I grow spiritually everytime I have a new person sit in the chair on my porch, he reads his resentments and one by one I help him see his part. He stands from the chair a few hours later a new person. The disease is your defects, god is found in living in the opposite of your defects. If an alcoholic can learn to never hold a resentment, he can never hold a drink. The disease can actually be removed this way, and it works the same almost everytime.
People who say to just go to meetings, don't know how to work the steps effectively like I just outlined. Many of them are not at fault, they are only doing what they heard a lot of aa-oholics preach to them. An AA-oholic is simply someone who swaps addictions from alcohol/drugs to AA. They are seat fillers and coffee makers, and I am grateful for them as they keep the lights on for meetings. There is a solution to alcoholism, it is in finding a higher power that allows us to be free of this disease, gives us courage to do things we could never do on our own, and shows us when we are free of the bondage of self, and live to serve others, we are given a life we never could have planned or dreamed of.
Love it thanks
I understand your feelings. I have them often myself. I am back in AA after a three year relapse but this time I'm a widow and I live alone. I moved so I have few friends. I go to a meeting almost daily and I've already made a couple friends - and I've only been here two months.
But forgive me for the Big Book thump but - if you read the bedevilments on page 52 (4th ed.) of the Big Book - starts with "We had to ask ourselves -" and go on through that paragraph. That's Me! You describe many of those issues too. So the solution? Well, keep reading how the God idea works.
Your sponsor staying in teacher mode is a gift. Do not question anything. You will make a lot of friends but very few spiritual teachers so let him do his thing. Trust. Be Open Minded, Honest, and willing to do whatever it takes. . Increase your meeting life and follow directions and I PROMISE YOU. This will get better and better. Hang in there. Know.. you are NOT alone.
When I withdrew from alcohol, my feelings were not sedated as they used to be.
My feelings seemed to me to be like awkward cousins from another continent!!!
I was in the same boat in early sobriety. Sounds like you have a good start on a 4th step. You are looking at yourself and examining how you relate in the world. Make it official. Get with someone who has worked the steps and put in a good effort.
The biggest and most unexpected gift I received in AA was as a result of working the steps, especially the 4th, where I learned to identify and deal with all those things you mention. I also learned to "reframe" the situation and think about how much fun it was going to be to learn how to socialize sober, date sober, have a relationship sober, have sex sober and to become the person I was meant to be. I have to say, it was a fun journey that continues.
Going back to alcohol to deal with crap always just brought on more crap. Choosing the steps & sobriety opened up a whole new world.
I don't know if this will help you at all, but I feel your anguish. I will sometimes find myself in a situation or two that will envoke some of the same emotions you are expressing. This is a truth that I hang on to, and it has made a world of difference for me. STOP LOOKING FOR HAPPYNESS!!! We are told that the key to life is happyness. when you do well in school, you could be happy. when you do well in school you could get a good paying job, and that could make you happy. If you get that good job you can get married and that could make you happy. If you have a good job, and a spouse you could have children and that could make you happy. If you have children you can get a good home in a good neighborhood with the new car and that could make you happy. If you have done all that you could retire to an exotic and warm place, and that could make you happy.
That is a hard recepie to follow, and what if I'm not that good in school? Do I have to forget about achiving happyness? Most of us, when having trouble with the formula for happyness will seek happyness some other way. It could be at the bottom of the next bottle, or some drug, or food, or an inapropreate relationship with someone. However with the alternative forms of happyness AND the formula, happyness is always fleeting and never sticks around for that long.
When I came to recognize this I simply stoped persuing happyness and focused on learning to be content. When I am content in relationships, sobriety, fellowship, work, and life in general I seem to experiance a sence of joy that I didn't expect. Even more suprising to me was that the happyness that was always so fleeting started to persue me! I find happyness around every corner, almost like happyness seeks out joy. Today I saw two children with their mother at a burger playground (inside the resturant type) and it brought me great joy. The mother sparked up conversation, and I was happy to speek with her. I now have a new friend, and my wife and I can be of service to someone else.
I don't know how helpfull this will be, but give it some thought. It seems it can't hurt.
I constantly hear in meetings..."Meeting makers make it" That certainly hasn't been true for me nor for most people I have watched come in and out of the rooms the last 14 years.
Alcoholism is a progressive illness; we never get better, only worse. When the Alcoholic has LOST the POWER of choice and control regarding the drink (or any addiction), we are beyond human aide. Unless we experience a complete physic change there is very little hope of our recovery (BB p. xxviii). How do we get this "complete physic change?"
The Big Book has "precise" instructions how and this means finding a God through taking the steps and doing extensive work with other alcoholics. Experience has shown me that willpower, humans, fellowship, meetings are not enough for permanent sobriety and a happy, contented life. HOWEVER, meetings, fellowship, service and humans are a VITAL part to recover from this illness because we "Must" carry the message to the alcoholic and help those who want to recover to KEEP the POWER to stay sober and learn to practice these principles (the Steps) in our affairs.
The good news is we can recover!! Provided we take certain steps...
As I understand "MEETING MAKERS" in the above context; they are like folk who enter their local bank daily, wave and exchange courteous words with the bank manager, but do not lodge a single cent. Their bank capital does not grow at all!
But when the above bank visitor lodges cash frequently his bank balance grows.
Ditto with "MEETING MAKERS", when they get a sponsor, study the recovery programme and try to practice the 12 steps daily, these actions help the MEETING MAKERS get to experience the 12 promises which result from practising the first 9 steps of the programme.
I attended my local group in Ireland recently and heard a man share this.
On July 28 of this year I and my friends in AA will celebrate my 30 year of soberity! I am one of countless meeting makers that make it! My friends with weeks or countless decades of soberity are also meeting makers!
I started hearing this meeting makers do not make it about 8 years ago and at that time I thought it was false true and still due! I have been to meeting in 36 States and continue to have fellowship with meeting makers
There are a bunch of tough love, ego driven, self centered (and I am not going to say more) members of AA that continue to beat up on new comers that are not yet ready to admitted their complete defeat. You folks that say meeting maker don't make it need to revisit your past for a while!! This is Ron "Gilly " at Point Iroquois Lighthouse in Brimley MI
Perhaps more people would "Make It" going to meetings if people would give examples and talk more about what alcoholism actually is: a spiritual malady, an allergy of the body and the obsession of the mind. Then include the things done to recover from that hopeless state.
Sharing mess & war stories of the incomprehensible demoralization and humiliations doesn't help anyone understand the true nature of alcoholism.
The thousands of speaker discussion meetings I've attended 95% speaker shares are about the drama, not alcoholism and only 5% is about what steps were taken to recover.
I don't like what I need to say were is GOD in what you say. Just keep going to meetings I did that and went back out for 20 years. Meeting makers make it if GOD is first service unity steps ALL that is in the BOOK then you will make it. Maybe that is what you mean RON. I see meeting makers go back out all the time. The ones that do make it are the ones that are doing what is in the book.
Wrong word at the end of the sentence. The truth is, meeting makers make meetings.
Read pages 39 and 40 in the 12&12: "More sobriety brought about by the admission of alcoholism and by attendance at a few meetings is very good indeed, permanent sobriety and a contented, useful life. That is just where the remaining Steps of the A.A. program come in."
At three and a half months I was stuck in a location with no Meetings and no sober AA members. It was suggested that if I used my Big Book and a Higher Power I'd be all right. The Big Book and a Higher Power kept me sober (not just dry) for the two months I was there.
At eleven months I deployed to the Western Pacific aboard a US Navy ship with one other sober AA aboard. Our different working hours prevented us fro getting together very often, but again the Big Book and a Higher Power kept me sober for the entire ten months, including visits to my old drinking ports. On my first birthday we made port and I met a sober alcoholic who had been sober without meetings for eight years.
If I make it another forty-six days I'll celebrate forty-three years of unbroken sobriety in AA. The closest I have been to drinking was at nearly ten years when I was going to two meetings a day and three on weekends. I too heard and believed 'meeting makers make it' so I stopped doing what the Big Book advises to do on page eighty-six, and after a meeting one afternoon I flipped a coin to see whether I was going back to the AA club or to the liquor store. Fortunately my Higher Power interfered and I did neither.
I haven't been to meetings in thirty six states, only five. And three foreign countries. And while you are coming up on thirty years of sobriety by going to meetings, my father, also an admitted alcoholic, died with thirty-six years sobriety and never attended an AA meting in his life.
I'm Jim, on the East Coast.
Hi ron, glad ur here.
At a noon meeting last tuesday, the chair gave a 6 month chip, on Friday he was drunk. Last Tuesday I went to our weekly detox meeting. The girl there drank after 9 months. The 6 mother was on step none while the girl never finished step 5, both went to several meetings a week.
clu1992 You are saying that these members are relapsing
because they have refused to do the steps. Could it be that
they are going back out because of the pushing and prodding
that goes on in AA today? We try to cram the steps down
everyone's throats. We have morphed from a "fellowship of
men and women" to a TWELVE STEP PROGRAM.
The steps and Alcoholics Anonymous in its entirety are
Suggestions. They are to be offered in a suggestive manner.
Try offering them with love and tolerance and thank those who
attend your meetings for helping you stay sober. Don't tell
anyone in AA what to do. Just tell them what worked for you. Stop saying "Well, if you want what I have, you will have to do what I do, or did. Or worse, what I tell you to do. Read "Arrogance and its Opposite" in As Bill Sees It.
You may not see yourself there, but they do. ANONYMOUS
You do realize AA went from 75% success rate going to 1 meeting a week in 50s-70s to a 95% failure rate going to meetings everyday? The problem is the misinterpretation of the steps. The first step is worked by going to a meeting, you admit you have a problem. A person has to admit there is a problem before they can change it, kind of a weird deal, but they have to accept the problem exists first.
The biggest mis-translation is the 4th-7th steps, which are not a 'confession' to those of us who know how to work the steps effectively. To us they are a 'design for living' that relieves the alcoholic from the obsession to use alcohol. So we are not 'craming' the steps down throats, we are offering to save someones life, by offering the solution to their problem, or the 75% successful way to stay sober vs. the 95% failure way.
When people don't have faith in the steps, or don't know how to work the steps effectively, they place the Fellowship as the spiritual base of the program instead of the steps. So the spiritual malady is never overcome and they never become truly sober and stay insane. So that is why you hear people like yourself always say, "well He/She stopped going to meetings and went back out." Yes they may have also gone back out because they did not have a solution to their problem, which is found in the 'design for living' version of the steps.
With a 95% failure rate, it might mean that 95% of the people in some AA rooms don't know what they are talking about. And if someone has long term sobriety by just going to meetings, and not getting much out of the steps, they are either not real alcoholics, or they are very much full of resentments like you just showed. They never learned how to be free of anger, by discovering the 'exact nature/defects of character' from the resentments, which then they asked to be removed like the design for living versioner's do. Being able to see the exact nature, then asking god to remove the things on this list that are tied directly to the resentments, causes the 'spiritual awakening' for 90% of the people I sponsor. If it doesn't happen at 7, they have the, the slower awakening which will be had by the 9th step.
Meeting Makers typically for steps 4-7 'confess' the worst things they did to others, which will not relieve the obsession unfortunatly. It will however, get them to believe that the steps should be delayed until someone is 'Ready' to 'confess'. So they say things like '90 in 90', 'easy does it' (which is the family afterward, or after the steps)
I pray if someone has the strength to read this post for what is written, and see where they may have been going wrong in recovery, even if it has been for years, will find the courage to change their ways. I pray you all find sobriety and happiness, and take it easy on yourselves.
Yes, they are relapsing because they are not working the steps. Why would AA have 12 steps and not suggest working them? It’s the same old broken record, treatment, halfway house, and meetings. They usually get drunk between 3 months and 1 year without working the steps. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, it’s just what I’ve witnessed over the years. On the other hand, I have yet to personally meet anyone in AA who has started drinking while actively working the 12 steps as described in the big book with a sponsor. You may have, but I havn’t and that includes the half dozen or so alcoholics I have worked with annually.
Of course the steps are suggestions. That being said, we definitely should suggest taking the steps!
“Don’t tell anyone in AA what to do”- gotta love you for telling me what to do and having the self-delusion to tell me “don’t tell anyone in AA what to do. That’s just priceless!!! Maybe you should suggest reading as bill sees it page 199 to yourself? While reading as bill sees it, turn to page 105 where bill writes “our chief responsibility to the newcomer is an adequate presentation of the program” of course the program is the 12 steps and the meetings are the fellowship. Alcoholics of my description need both.
Heard a guy talking about how he heard someone misread the first step. The guy read"we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unimaginable". Sooo true!
I also heard a guy say, "Admitted we were powerless over alcohol because our WIVES had become unmanageable. HA!
A women at a group meeting in french could not see the word «unmanageable (incontrôlable)» for a long time, she would always read : «insupportable» wich translate into «unbearable»