Heard At Meetings

797 replies [Last post]
Anonymous
Unimaginable

Heard a guy talking about how he heard someone misread the first step. The guy read"we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unimaginable". Sooo true!

Anonymous
mis quote

I also heard a guy say, "Admitted we were powerless over alcohol because our WIVES had become unmanageable. HA!

Anonymous
mis quote 1st step

A women at a group meeting in french could not see the word «unmanageable (incontrôlable)» for a long time, she would always read : «insupportable» wich translate into «unbearable»

Anonymous
Keeping and Giving It Away

Always heard that "You've got to give it away to keep it." But a few years ago I heard someone put a slight twist on that old saying that made me sit up and take notice.

"You can't keep what you're not willing to give away," the man said.

I still get goosebumps when that memory pops up. I've never forgotten that night.

Anonymous
RE: Keeping and Giving it Away

I consider my sobriety a gift from God. Unlike other gifts
this was one I had to ask for. And it came with conditions.
In order to keep it I had to give it away. I share the gift
by telling other alcoholics about it. Strange, the more I
share, the more I get to keep for myself. ANONYMOUS

Anonymous
F2F vs On line

We meet in groups regularly to help the new person find the fellowship. That's paraphrased from the Big Book. I can't believe I'm a Big Book thumper now. Wow.
I...this is for me.. think that when I am looking for an easier, softer way to do something -especially a meeting - it's a fear that has me trapped. I understand the fear as a new person, like me (retread) hasn't worked any steps and may not have the relationship with a Higher Power that will lead them through any fear, insecurity, grief or pain. My HP makes me do a TON of things that are not on my agenda. The longer I am back in the meetings, the more intuitive thoughts I seem to get. What's so great is that they are clearer than ever.
Today I went to a GREAT meeting in the morning. There was a speaker's meeting tonight and I really didn't want to go. My intuitive voice was not even negotiating. I had to go. I'm SO glad I did. It was important that I was there. He shared about being in the middle of losing a spouse to cancer and how he is dealing with it sober. I lost my spouse a year ago from cancer and it was just affirming to share that experience with another member of the program.
So God knows so much better than I of what is good for me. My thinking keeps me drunk. It truly does. Only doing on line meetings for me would be like on line dating without ever meeting anyone. It just feeds the ego but there is nothing really happening. This is not a judgment, this is my experience for me. My opinion.. for what it's worth.. is that if that is all another person is WILLING to do then it's better than nothing. I just hope that person is open to move through that when the time is right.
Be well.. :)

Anonymous
Fear

I agree that all this picking apart of ways to alter or adjust the program are fear based. We do what we do and if you want solid, joy-based sobriety.. just do it! All of it. Fear manifests in resistance and our alcoholism loves that.
I, too, lost my spouse to cancer a year ago. It's tough. I'll keep all of the widow's and widowers in my prayers. thanks for your share. Vegas Pam

Anonymous
Coins

Coins mean time sober. When people pick up (it really happens) it is an embarrassing thing. It has the power to kill-that illusion of owning time. Waste of time. Humility

Anonymous
Coins

I recently watched a friend of mine go through the process of having to pick up a 24hr coin after 18 months of sobriety.

It was devastating to have to go back up after all that time successful to admit failure. I was told if I wasn't there as a support, the relapse would have lasted longer, especially since the thought that all that time had already been wasted, why not just go all out in the relapse!

I agree that going up for a "relapse coin" is or can be a major deterrent to coming back to meetings. If a strong support or an active, caring sponsor is not available, making it back to a meeting after losing all that time can be extremely difficult.

Taking responsibility for a relapse is required to move on and grow or at least learn from the experience, but if I were to suggest any change to the current operating of the tradition of coins, I would say coins should be issued as an award from a sponsor to a sponsee. It ensures that the sponsor is taking a personal role in the life of the sponsee, as well as makes the sponsee feel a further sense of fulfillment when they are being awarded a medal from a person in their life that they have chosen as a confidant and friend. There should be a mutual agreement that an award will be given, as surprises should be avoided in my opinion, but also, a sponsor should encourage their sponsee when relapses happen to make the durations shorter and shorter until there are no relapses at all.

The relationship between a sponsor and their sponsee is as important to the sponsor as it is to the sponsee. It should be taken seriously by both members, and like any relationship, should not be taken for granted.

Anonymous
Coins and sponsors

I did not want to get up to receive my intial coins. My sponsor convinced me, and I now agree. It is NOT all about me. I can suck it for five minutes, get red faced and uncomfortable as I accept my coin. In turn, I give hope to new comers in the room. We have to pay it forward every single. So very very grateful to my sponsor and my fellowship. Go get that coing and look at the love in people’s faces as you receive it. Very cool indeed :-)

Anonymous
re: coins

Your group's practices are much different than those of groups/meetings I attend in the midwest, where coins are pretty much up to the celebrant and his/her sponsor or close friend(s). But as to the humiliation you describe, coming back after a relapse and having to admit to that relapse, to me the whole purpose of the fellowship is to find the encouragement and support I need to deal with life on life's terms, and how can I receive that support if I am not honest about my struggles, whether to stay sober or to practice humility and find a little serenity. A non-AA daily reading yesterday discussed how necessary falling and humiliation are for personal or spiritual growth: "As Carl Jung put it so well, 'Where you stumble and fall, there you find pure gold.'"

Anonymous
RE: Coins

I have come to believe that the issuance of coins, chips
etc. is harmful to A.A. as a whole. Gratefully accepting
a medallion and then relapsing is embarrassing. It is easier
to just not return.
What seemed to be a good thing years ago, has proven Bill's
statement that sometimes the temporary seeming good can be
the deadly enemy of the permanent best.
Instead of spending money for coins, groups ought to
reassess their position on self support. Donate the money
to the church, etc. which allows us space to meet.
Calling a new member to the front of the room to be
praised for normal behavior, is hardly ego deflating.
Alcoholics coming to our meetings ought not be made a spectacle of, neither ought they be allowed to make
spectacles of themselves. Everyone is an equal. Middle
of the road is best, in my opinion. ANONYMOUS

Anonymous
There is no middle of the

There is no middle of the road solution

Anonymous
coins

good thoughts.

however, our group in oshkosh wi value them as a prized gift from God. we are proud yet humbled by given another 24 hours that add up thru the years.

as a former hs teacher, amny thoughts comprise the whole, and all are worth evaluating.

Anonymous
Coins

I was told by my sponsor early on that I get up to receive a chip because it shows the newcomer that it is possible to get and stay sober. Relapse is not a Requirement. It does happen.

The process of getting a new chip & but for the Grace of God go I, need ever do it myself, is I believe a process of letting people know that, okay, yes you slipped / relapsed but you are not giving up. People in the rooms can than reach out to you as they know you have or are struggling.

Any time you spent sober, was never wasted time, you learned valuable things.

grateful girl

Anonymous
God's Plan

Great advice I find myself coming back to over and over again when I am feeling like things in my life just haven't gone the way I thought they would...

"The best way to make God laugh is to tell him YOUR plans."

One day at a time I am learning that my Higher Power won't give me anything I can't handle, whether it's what I expected things would be like or not.

So grateful to be sober today. xox

Anonymous
Thank you for that post .

Thank you for that post . Been struggling lately and haven't been "feeling" it . You wrote just what I needed this morning . God Bless you !

Anonymous
Drunk in a Hole

Does anyone know the author of Drunk in a Hole?

Anonymous
Confidentiality at Meetings

I have heard a lot of good stuff in meetings that I think would be beneficial to those who think they might have a drinking problem as well as those in AA. I would like to put those wisdoms in a book and give it away. I would not attribute what was shared to names. I have concerns that the the " who I see here and what I hear here, leave it here" would be violated. Yet I see in this forum that people are repeating what they heard at meetings. I'm confused. Please help.

noduis
Offline
Joined: 2013-09-05
Confidentiality at Meetings

The "Anonymity Statement" is read at the end of many of our local meetings. I have no idea when it started or where it came from, but I do know it doesn't make sense to me. I certainly agree that I have no right to tell anyone who I see at a meeting, but 'What you hear here, let it stay here'? If we learn something in a meeting that helps us stay sober, why should we forget it as soon as we're out the door? Anyone can stay away from a drink in a meeting, it's out in the world that I need to use what I learn.

Anonymous
Who you see here and what you hear here, let it stay here

Just a quick comment on that line. That little card that shows up from time to time on the tables of AA is actually printed by our sister fellowship, Al-Anon. It's not an AA saying at all. (Read the fine print at the bottom of the card.)

Our Big Book is the best guide. It says, "Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now." p.58.

It also says, "We do talk about each other a great deal, but we almost invariably temper such talk by a spirit of love and tolerance." p. 125.

It's foolishness to think that people will keep whatever they hear to themselves. We tell the stories we hear, being careful not to criticize, and in most cases, not to mention names, unless we're sure that person would not mind. We also don't share them outside of AA, of course.

To expand on that last quote (earlier on page 125) it says, "We families of Alcoholics Anonymous keep few skeletons in the closet. Everyone knows about the others' alcoholic troubles. This is a condition which, in ordinary life, would produce untold grief; there might be scandalous gossip, laughter at the expense of other people, and the tendency to take advantage of intimate information. Among us, these are rare occurrences."

I think it's clear that "what is said here" does not "stay here." That honestly would be a shame—to have so much that we could use to help ourselves and others, and not be able to use it!

The far more important point is to know what is APPROPRIATE and what is NOT APPROPRIATE to share in a meeting. A good sponsor can help us sort those things out!

There's not a way in the world where it would be a violation of any kind of tradition to compile the things that you've heard into a book. Especially if there are no names, and no way to identify the person who said them...
And come to think of it, I doubt I've heard anything terribly original. Someone's probably said it before! LOL

Anonymous
Who you see here, what you hear here...

I agree. I frequently come home and share stories, wisdom, and sayings (without names) with my husband who is not in the program. He loves them. When he meets my "Friends with Bill" he almost invariably says, how intelligent and clever we are. He has seen first-hand what these meetings do to me and loves all the clever saying. On the other hand, he has used them against (?) me when I am off the beam. I love him and AA.

Anonymous
K.I.S.S.

My sponsor really has to literally tell me to stop thinking and Keep It Simple Sweetness...when I had the same concern, she explained that there is no need for anonymity in the rooms and with one another. Then she "suggested" I hit some traditions meetings and read the Traditions (from 12&12). Good luck Sweetness...and Keep It Simple :)

aabrad
Offline
Joined: 2011-05-01
Confidentiality at Meetings

I have heard some really good stories, shares of personal experiences and people over coming their urge to drink, fear of going back to college, making amends and so on.
I have retold some of the stories I have heard in an AA meeting, hoping to help another AA member with his particular problem or perhaps add something to the meeting topic or discussion.
There is stuff said at meetings that is just the speakers opinion or experience. Is what the speaker said in line or can it be found in the Big Book? Does it relate to the Steps? or Traditions?
Example, Just go to meetings. If I just go to meetings, will I have a spiritual experience? will I possibly not recover? Will the promises mentioned in Big Book materialize?
I applaud your wanting to help others and doing what is suggested on page 20 (top of the page).
While Clancy I or Bob C say some funny things and tell a good story but will it keep me sober?
Brad

Anonymous
Confidentiality and The Bog Book.

Here is an excllent webise:

"it ain't in the Big Book."

cmackin1
Offline
Joined: 2013-05-18
Anonymity

My experience is that stories are just stories unless in their telling a specific person place or thing can be identified back to an individual. I often tell sponsees that the details (especially about drama) are of lesser importance than the principles behind our actions or statements. So retelling someone's story exemplifies the principles of AA. The person involved like the nitty gritty details are of lesser importance. If they are, they become gossip, not the underpinnings of sobriety. At least that's how it works for me.

Anonymous
Confidentiality at Meetings and Anonyminity

I agree with your comment that "stories are just stories unless in their telling a specific person, place or thing can be identified back to an individual." Attending meetings is part of our 'experience' and sharing with other AA's about what went on in a meeting is perfectly acceptable if it is intended as a way to help others.

Anonymous
confidentiality/anonymity in and outside of A A Meetings

Good idea. i'll think it over and respond at a later time. Mabey if we can define each , it will help us understand more fully. How about confidentiality/anonymity after someone dies?...... I seem to remember a flyer " Anonymity in Memoriam. thanks for getting me thinking. joe h pa

Anonymous
Joke

The definition of a "functional alcoholic": an alcoholic whose spouse is working.

Anonymous
HEARD AT MEETING

"I used to live on the Riviera - on my Buick Riviera on 5th Street" - Scooter, Alb. N.M.

Anonymous
Searching literature

I am looking for the origin of the following statement: " Sobriety is the most important thing in your life without exception. You may believe that your job, your home life or one of many other things come first. But consider, if you do not get sober and stay sober chances are that you won't have a job, a family or even a life. If you are convinced that everything in life depends on your sobriety, you just have so much more chance of getting sober and staying sober. If you put other things first you are only hurting your chances of attaining continuous and contented sobriety". I do know that this is from the Akron manual but what I would like to find out is if it has been printed in any of our literature?

clu1992
Offline
Joined: 2012-05-30
akron manual

Yes, that statement is from the akron manual. It also seems to have been adopted into a pamphlet in great Britain call the “15 points” written around 1979. you can read it at http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.eu/WelcomeDocs/15_Points.pdf other than that, I don't recall reading that paragraph in any AA conference approved literature in north america. I think it's in some local pamphlets like the "tablemate", "detoit pamphlet", and "washington DC pamphlet".

After reading your post, I re-read the akron manual. I found it interesting how they described the 12 steps as laws and rules. It’s so interesting, that I included it in this post.
“The Twelve Steps
Alcoholics Anonymous is based on a set of laws known as the Twelve Steps. Years of experience have definitely proved that those who live up to these rules remain sober. Those who gloss over or ignore any one rule are in constant danger of returning to a life of drunkenness. Thousands of words could be written on each rule. Lack of space prevents, so they are merely listed here. It is suggested that they be explained by the sponsor. If he cannot explain them he should provide someone who can.”

lb2013
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Joined: 2014-03-31
Steps as Laws

My former sponsor's wife, who had long term sobriety and was an angel of a woman, used to say, "wear the steps like a loose garment" and "work the steps until the steps work you". I'm not sure where she developed those statements and didn't know at the time exactly what she meant but she always said this in such a loving, gentle and kind way that I liked what she said.

Many years later, the AA steps have become a "way of life" for me that includes surrender, faith, spirituality, honesty, open mindedness, willingness, self knowledge, courage, humility, fellowship, understanding, service and love. The steps became less of a straight jacket needed to save me from myself and more of a framework for living within which I can thrive as a human being in all of my affairs.

Tommy13
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Joined: 2014-04-19
12 Step Laws

They are Laws. Better known as Universal Laws. And there's 12 of them regardless if you're studying and practicing AA, Buddha, Jesus and etc. They're undeniable laws that must be followed in order to lead a happy - joyous - healthy life.

Anonymous
12 Step Laws

You can tell a drunk, but you can't tell him much.
That is why some of us refer to them as suggestions.

Anonymous
Bad times!!!

Every day I was in the manure! The depth alone differed!!!

Anonymous
I was shaking so badly...

I was shaking so badly that strangers waved back to me!!!

Anonymous
Heard at meeting

From-How it works- But many of them do not recover if they have the capacity to be honest?????? Hayes M. Cumberland Md.

CEJohnson
Offline
Joined: 2011-06-24
Big Book, Chap 5, "How It Works"

...but many of them DO recover if...

hlarsen
Offline
Joined: 2014-04-20
Take the Not out before "recover"

It should read "...there are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders ... but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest". Just means that, coming off the previous statement where they note that there are some people who simply cannot be honest with themselves at all. Then they acknowledge others who have certain challenges but can work the program if they have the capacity to be honest.

Anonymous
Geographical Cure!!!

The other side of the fence is greener! But you still have to mow it!!!

lb2013
Offline
Joined: 2014-03-31
Capacity to be Honest

I once heard a guy in AA equate capacity to be honest to a barrel. A 50 gallon barrel has a 50 gallon capacity. You may not fill it all the way (you are not being completely honest) but it has that capacity and can be used to its full capacity if desired.

Those who DO NOT have the capacity to be honest have no barrel. It's not that they are not using their capacity to be honest; they have no capacity. This is probably a rare condition that involves serious mental or emotional illness. Most human beings have the capacity, we just don't always use it.

Anonymous
capacity

The capacity to be honest, is very subjective. The ability to try to be honest is more about willingness than anything else. It certainly takes practice, and even after 17 years, my disease still lies to me, and I don't always recognize it right away. The capacity to be honest seems to teeter on one's commitment and efforts toward progress, with a generous helping of acceptance, rather than perfection.
In time it becomes it's own reward, at least in my experience. My best suggestion is to be as open as possible. Defending and protecting what I thought I knew turned out to be as real as the great and powerful oz.

Anonymous
Re heard at meetings

If your not honest with yourself, how are you going to find out who you are, why you did the things you did, and what kind of a person you can be? If your not honest with yourself, then you can't find the answer as to why you can't stay sober. If anything you'll remain dry or go on a big drunk. Why torture yourself by not doing your step 4 and 5? In order to live a happy life, we must clean up the garbage and let it go. Read about steps 4,5,6,7,8,9. This will tell you why we must be honest in order to live a happy sober life. At least this is what I found when I did my step work. This is your life your talking about. Do what you want, but life is not meant to be all roses and daisies. We must go through thorns and thistles before we go into the field of roses and daisies. Don't forget about the occasional bees that sting every now and again. Beware the easier softer way does not work, as well if your not honest with yourself and others you did not change except you remain dry, miserable, and really anyone would lack the ability to deal with life on life's terms without the tools of recovery.

I hope this helps

Anonymous

Anonymous
Wise

I heard at a meeting from a wise old man, when he introduced himself by saying " my name is Johnny and I don't have a problem with alcohol I have a problem with Johnny". Straight and too the point thanks Johnny.

Anonymous
Bottom

You've hit your bottom when you stop digging.

Anonymous
My Rock Bottom!

My Rock Bottom was my Foundation Stone to a New Life!

Anonymous
104987-11-3 manufacturer

Tacrolimus (also FK-506 or fujimycin, swop names Prograf, Advagraf, Protopic) is an immunosuppressive drug that is primarily used after allogeneic organ move to compress the vocation of the passive's immune approach and so bring the danger of medium rejection. It is also occupied in a up to date preparation in the treatment of atopic dermatitis (eczema), harsh refractory uveitis after bone marrow transplants, exacerbations of token metamorphose disease, and the fleece condition vitiligo.
It is a 23-membered macrolide lactone discovered in 1984 from the fermentation decoction of a Japanese filth representative that contained the bacteria Streptomyces tsukubaensis. It reduces interleukin-2 (IL-2) putting out during T-cells.
History
Tacrolimus was discovered in 1984; it was among the opening macrolide immunosuppressants discovered, preceded at near the disclosure of rapamycin (sirolimus) on Rapa Nui (Easter Atoll) in 1975.<>] It is produced by way of a type of loam bacterium,Streptomyces tsukubaensis.<>] The name tacrolimus is derived from 'Tsukuba macrolide immunosuppressant'.<>]
Tacrolimus was beforehand approved via the Food and Narcotize Management (FDA) in 1994 someone is concerned make use of in liver transplantation; this has been extended to comprehend kidney, affection, uncomfortable bowel, pancreas, lung, trachea, skin, cornea, bone marrow, and limb transplants.
Availability
The branded type of the drug is owned next to Astellas Pharma, and is sold secondary to the trade names Prograf assumed twice common,Advagraf, a continual release formulation allowing in the good old days daily dosing, and Protopic (Eczemus in Pakistan on Brookes Pharma), the topical formulation.<>] Advagraf is at one's fingertips in 0.5, 1, 3 and 5 mg capsules, the not bad is concentrations of 0.1% and 0.03%.
A second once-daily formulation of tacrolimus is in Development 3 clinical trials in the U.S. and Europe. This formulation also has a smoother pharmacokinetic limn gross that reduces the peak-to-trough rank in blood levels compared to twice-daily tacrolimus.<>] Materials from the primary Viewpoint 3 trial in deep-rooted kidney transplant patients showed that this once-daily formulation was non-inferior in efficacy and safety compared to twice-daily tacrolimus.<>] A second Juncture 3 litigation in de novo patients is ongoing.<>]
Mechanism of action
Tacrolimus is chemically known as a macrolide. In T-cells, activation of the T-cell receptor normally increases intracellular calcium, which acts via calmodulin to get started calcineurin. Calcineurin then dephosphorylates the transcription element NF-AT (atomic agent of activated T-cells), which moves to the pith of the T-cell and increases the motion of genes coding in behalf of IL-2 and related cytokines. Tacrolimus prevents the dephosphorylation of NF-AT.<>] In detail, Tacrolimus reduces peptidyl-prolyl isomerase occupation by binding to the immunophilin FKBP12 (FK506 binding protein) creating a uncharted complex. This FKBP12-FK506 complex interacts with and inhibits calcineurin and so inhibiting both T-lymphocytesignal transduction and IL-2 transcription.<>] Although this action is similar to ciclosporin, studies take shown that the occurrence of keen repudiation is reduced nearby tacrolimus exigency execrate done with ciclosporin.<>0] Although short-term immunosuppression with an eye to patient and graft survival is found to be be like between the two drugs, tacrolimus results in a more favorable lipid profile, and this may be undergoing leading long-term implications given the prognostic act upon of also brush on implant survival.<>1]

Anonymous
104987-11-3 manufacturer

Tacrolimus (also FK-506 or fujimycin, swop names Prograf, Advagraf, Protopic) is an immunosuppressive drug that is primarily used after allogeneic organ move to compress the vocation of the passive's immune approach and so bring the danger of medium rejection. It is also occupied in a up to date preparation in the treatment of atopic dermatitis (eczema), harsh refractory uveitis after bone marrow transplants, exacerbations of token metamorphose disease, and the fleece condition vitiligo.
It is a 23-membered macrolide lactone discovered in 1984 from the fermentation decoction of a Japanese filth representative that contained the bacteria Streptomyces tsukubaensis. It reduces interleukin-2 (IL-2) putting out during T-cells.
History
Tacrolimus was discovered in 1984; it was among the opening macrolide immunosuppressants discovered, preceded at near the disclosure of rapamycin (sirolimus) on Rapa Nui (Easter Atoll) in 1975.<>] It is produced by way of a type of loam bacterium,Streptomyces tsukubaensis.<>] The name tacrolimus is derived from 'Tsukuba macrolide immunosuppressant'.<>]
Tacrolimus was beforehand approved via the Food and Narcotize Management (FDA) in 1994 someone is concerned make use of in liver transplantation; this has been extended to comprehend kidney, affection, uncomfortable bowel, pancreas, lung, trachea, skin, cornea, bone marrow, and limb transplants.
Availability
The branded type of the drug is owned next to Astellas Pharma, and is sold secondary to the trade names Prograf assumed twice common,Advagraf, a continual release formulation allowing in the good old days daily dosing, and Protopic (Eczemus in Pakistan on Brookes Pharma), the topical formulation.<>] Advagraf is at one's fingertips in 0.5, 1, 3 and 5 mg capsules, the not bad is concentrations of 0.1% and 0.03%.
A second once-daily formulation of tacrolimus is in Development 3 clinical trials in the U.S. and Europe. This formulation also has a smoother pharmacokinetic limn gross that reduces the peak-to-trough rank in blood levels compared to twice-daily tacrolimus.<>] Materials from the primary Viewpoint 3 trial in deep-rooted kidney transplant patients showed that this once-daily formulation was non-inferior in efficacy and safety compared to twice-daily tacrolimus.<>] A second Juncture 3 litigation in de novo patients is ongoing.<>]
Mechanism of action
Tacrolimus is chemically known as a macrolide. In T-cells, activation of the T-cell receptor normally increases intracellular calcium, which acts via calmodulin to get started calcineurin. Calcineurin then dephosphorylates the transcription element NF-AT (atomic agent of activated T-cells), which moves to the pith of the T-cell and increases the motion of genes coding in behalf of IL-2 and related cytokines. Tacrolimus prevents the dephosphorylation of NF-AT.<>] In detail, Tacrolimus reduces peptidyl-prolyl isomerase occupation by binding to the immunophilin FKBP12 (FK506 binding protein) creating a uncharted complex. This FKBP12-FK506 complex interacts with and inhibits calcineurin and so inhibiting both T-lymphocytesignal transduction and IL-2 transcription.<>] Although this action is similar to ciclosporin, studies take shown that the occurrence of keen repudiation is reduced nearby tacrolimus exigency execrate done with ciclosporin.<>0] Although short-term immunosuppression with an eye to patient and graft survival is found to be be like between the two drugs, tacrolimus results in a more favorable lipid profile, and this may be undergoing leading long-term implications given the prognostic act upon of also brush on implant survival.<>1]

gmark2
Offline
Joined: 2014-02-25
from my sponsot

After i complained to my sponsor about behavior of people in AA.

His response was :

Just remember...well people dont come here.

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