Magazine Discussion Topic
With those, with your other addiction I am sure you would have enough to start an N A meeting and allow the A A meeting to do what it does best.
As your needs are not being fully met in a A A meeting, and just being dry or in your case not picking up is not a condition that one can call being sober in the true meaning as it is referred to in the B B Book.
In a N A meeting you would be called out on various shares where at an A A meeting they would not have a clue for a way to help you. Unless that is what you are worried about
Like I said with almost 30 years I have seen and heard both sides of the story.
Hugh London Ontario
So are cons, liars, cheats and thief's - Whats your point?
Support them too !!!!
As long as you say you're an alcoholic you are welcome no matter how many other problems you have,especially "anger" which you seem to have in abundance.
You should read the pamphlet, Problems Other Than Alcohol."
This has been an ongoing argument for more years than I care to count. I have yet to hear one honest reason for addicts to avoid NA, CA, or one of the hundreds of programs designed for drug users. Many excuses but not one valid reason.
Based strictly on my personal observation and listening to addicts I have come to my own conclusions.
A. By coming to AA meetings an addict can deny his/her addiction.
B. By identifying as an addict at an AA meeting he/she can deny his/her alcoholism.
C. being an addict at an AA meeting allows the addict to be different, to stand out, to be special.
A drug is a drug is a drug? So what? Not all drugs are addictive. Aspirin is a drug, how many aspirin addicts attend AA meetings?
I have an addiction in addition to my alcoholism. When I felt the craving for that particular substance I used and the craving disappeared until the drug left my system. I didn't crave alcohol until I took a drink, and then with each drink the craving grew, it didn't diminish.
They screwed up NA, where else can they go?
"They screwed up NA, where else can they go?"
They can go back to NA and work to straighten it out.
N A is not screwed up. It is the person that screwed up while attending their meetings. My experience is they run a tougher program and those who screw up there think they can get some sympathy from one of the little old ladies in A A that does not understand their problems because she had not taken the same path.
Why would they have any interest on returning to N/A?
They are comfortable with us in AA. They have been allowed
to become AA members the same as the rest of us. They will
remain unless and until we begin steering them back to their own fellowship. I have heard that in some parts of the country,
if a member makes the statement "my name is Jim and I am
an alcoholic and addict", the group chants "two bucks in the basket", and the visitor is informed that "this is
an AA meeting".
My real concern is that most addicts do not remain
abstinent in AA or N/A. In a one hour N/A meeting, at
least 20 minutes is spent reading "required" redundant
material. They have followed AA with that ritual.
Parallel, AA and N/A can offer a real solution to
alcoholism and drug addiction. Combine them (which we have
done for decades) and both fellowships lose their effectiveness. Today's AA member, and N/A member have
no idea how to carry the message of recovery. Both fellowships have had the "cart before the horse" for
the past 25 years. Until we return the horse to
its proper position, alcoholics and addicts will
continue to suffer. This suffering is not necessary.
Study Bill W.'s words on page 70 in AA Comes Of Age,
concerning how to carry the message to others. ANONYMOUS
“Now there are certain things that AA cannot do for anybody, regardless of what our several desires or sympathies may be.
Our first duty, as a society, is to insure our own survival. Therefore we have to avoid distractions and multi-purpose activity. An AA group, as such, cannot take on all the personal problems of its members, let alone the problems of the whole world.
Sobriety--freedom from alcohol--through the teaching and practice of the Twelve Steps, is the sole purpose of an AA group. Groups have repeatedly tried other activities and they have always failed. It has also been learned that there is no possible way to make non-alcoholics into AA members. We have to confine our membership to alcoholics and we have to confine our AA groups to a single purpose. If we don't stick to these principles, we shall almost surely collapse. And if we collapse, we cannot help anyone.
To illustrate, let's review some typical experiences. Years ago, we hoped to give AA membership to our families and to certain non-alcoholic friends who had been greatly helpful. They had their problems, too, and we wanted them in our fold. Regretfully, we found that this was impossible. They couldn't make straight AA talks; nor, save a few exceptions, could they identify with new AA members. Hence, they couldn't do continuous Twelfth Step work. Close to us as these good folks were, we had to deny them membership. We could only welcome them at our open meetings.
Therefore I see no way of making non-alcoholic addicts into AA members. Experience says loudly that we can admit no exceptions, even though drug users and alcoholics happen to be first cousins of a sort. If we persist in trying this, I'm afraid it will be hard on the drug user himself, as well as on AA. We must accept the fact that no non-alcoholic, whatever his affliction, can be converted into an alcoholic AA member.”……….
........“I'm very sure that these experiences of yesterday can be the basis of resolving today's confusions about the narcotic problem. This problem is new, but the AA experience and Tradition which can solve it is already old and time-tested. I think we might sum it up like this:
We cannot give AA membership to non-alcoholic narcotics-addicts. But like anyone else, they should be able to attend certain open AA meetings, provided, of course, that the groups themselves are willing. AA members who are so inclined should be encouraged to band together in groups to deal with sedative and drug problems. But they ought to refrain from calling themselves AA groups.
There seems to be no reason why several AAs cannot join, if they wish, with a group of straight addicts to solve the alcohol and the drug problem together. But, obviously, such a "dual purpose" group should not insist that it be called an AA group nor should it use the AA name in its title. Neither should its "straight addict" contingent be led to believe that they have become AA members by reason of such an association.”
Bill W. (Co-founder of AA)
(Extracts from “Problems other than alcohol” The Language of the Heart pp 222-225. AA Grapevine, February 1958,)
To be fair to alcoholics who have other addictions I think Bill W’s summary of what AA Cannot do for narcotics addicts ought to have been included in the above post. Just in case there are some of those comical “pure alcoholics” about. The meaning of AA’s singleness of purpose in Tradition Five is however, clear and unequivocal.
Bill W's summary:
“Suppose, though, that we are approached by a drug addict who nevertheless has had a genuine alcoholic history. There was a time when such a person would have been rejected. Many early AAs had the almost comical notion that they were "pure alcoholics"--guzzlers only, no other serious problems at all. When alcoholic "ex-cons" and drug users first turned up there was much pious indignation. "What will people think?" chanted the pure alcoholics. Happily, this foolishness has long since evaporated.
One of the best AAs I know is a man who had been seven years on the needle before he joined up with us. But prior to that, he had been a terrific alcoholic and his history proved it. Therefore he could qualify for AA and this he certainly did. Since then, he has helped many AAs and some non-AAs with their pill and drug troubles. Of course, that is strictly his affair and is no way the business of the AA group to which he belongs. In his group he is a member because, in actual fact, he is an alcoholic. Such is the sum of what AA Cannot do--for narcotics addicts or for anybody else.”
Bill W. (Co-founder of AA)
(Extract from “Problems other than alcohol” The Language of the Heart pp 222-225 AA Grapevine February 1958)
"...Just in case there are some of those comical “pure alcoholics” about." Comical? What's so comical about alcoholics or alcoholism? Perhaps you're positive there is no such thing as an alcoholic who didn't get addicted to drugs? Bill W. saw fit to differentiate between the "real alcoholic" and the "certain type of hard drinker" when he wrote the Big Book.
Insisting that AA abandon the traditions to admit anyone and everyone with a problem is not the least bit comical, but very arrogant.
You won't find a real Alcoholic in a NA meeting that's for sure.
True, you won't find them. But they may be there. They
just do not identify themselves as alcoholics. They respect
the fellowship they are in. I am a real alcoholic, and have
never abused drugs, and have been to several NA meetings. Do you get my drift? ANONYMOUS
Thanks for taking the time and energy to post this for
those who are not interested enough to look it up. It is
time to acknowledge the fact that combining alcoholics
and drug addicts in one fellowship has been another
blunder. The trial and error period has gone on much too
long. Both fellowships have been greatly harmed, in my
opinion. It is not that one is any better or worse than
the other, just different. We need to return to our
singleness of purpose.
If a dual addicted alcoholic has any interest in
helping the drug addict, expend a little energy and get
involved in the creation of a meeting of addicts where
they can help each other. And I do not mean an N/A
meeting. I mean a fellowship where recovered and
recovering addicts can share experience, strength and
hope with each other, not to read to each other, and
chant, yell, hoot and holler. The N/A. meetings I
have gone to just read the same readings over and over
which consumes much of meeting time. I see very little
success at those meetings. Many are just loud nonsense,
just like many A.A. meetings.
If enough of us continue to remain silent, both
alcoholics and drug addicts will have no hope. ANONYMOUS
Thank you for your reply, I agree with what you say. AA must stick to its singleness of purpose or disintegrate like the Washingtonian movement. But I think it would be better if both AA and NA sorted out the unruly behaviour issues in meetings, rather than alcoholic- narcotics addicts forming yet another type of fellowship.
I thought you’d like to know that if ever you want to use a quote from Language of the Heart in your posts, it’s quick and easy to look up the article in the AA Grapevine archive and then copy and paste. I feel a twinge of guilt, you thanking me for my time and energy.
You have my sympathy and support. Addiction is addiction is addiction, whether it is to alcohol, coke, or cigarettes.
I am hoping that with enough work, we can find the momentum to effect some carefully thought out change within AA.
Hang in there, follow the steps, read, journal, meditate and pray, and share your thoughts, feelings and concerns with your sponsor. Tap into your spiritual source, and know that you are a cherished child of the infinite universe for all time.
IF YOU HAVE NO TROUBLE, WHY NOT START N A IN YOUR AREA
My sponsor pointed out to me that you won't find anyone under 35 years old in AA arguing that drug addicts should be kept out. That's because they either used drugs themselves or are tolerant toward those who did and are now in recovery. They are baffled by this whole controversy.
It's the older folks who are trying to keep AA pure. All I can say to them is, good luck...
Drug addicts are welcome to attend open meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous. They may attend closed meetings only if they are alcoholic and confine their shares to the subject of alcoholism and recovery. You hear in Treatment Centers that "a drug is a drug is a drug." Not so. A fruit is a fruit is a fruit but an apple is not an orange. I have reached out to suffering drug addicts and directed them to NA. We can't be all things to all people. Closed meetings are for those who are alcoholic.
If you are a non-alcoholic trying to recover in A A, my experience has shown that eventually you will expend your recovery energy trying to compair your addiction to my alcoholism. There is a vast difference in compairison and identification.If you do not have a problem with alcohol please find a fellowship with which you can identify! If you don't you might die in an attempt to relate. Please read our history, with an open mind, it reveals that we must do one thing and one thing only: Carry our message to the ALCOHOLIC who still suffers. With AA love, Mike
I have been in AA for 23 years and I get so tired of this heirarchy of addiction. After a while it just seems as if we addicts are just looking for something to argue about. At the base, the compulsions are the same and our twisted thinking messes up our lives and our emotional health in the same ways. As they say, we need to look for similarities and not differences. Splitting hairs about the bottle or the pipe is just another way for addicts to make ourselves "special and unique." "Oh, you couldn't understand what I went through. You're not an alcoholic!" That is rediculous. Get down to the basics of the program and reach out to others in the spirit of unity and love.
Are you an alcoholic? What is this hierarchy of
addiction? Are you on the bottle or the pipe? I believe
the very best thing we, as sober members of A.A. can do to help drug addicts is to
keep our fellowships separate. I do not identify with
the things that drug addicts do.
"Get down to the basics of the program and reach
out to others in the spirit of unity and love." I
cannot give away something I do not have. I have
very little to offer the drug addict, unless she/he
has a desire to stop drinking. Alcoholics Anonymous
offers a solution to alcoholism. This solution
rarely fails. ANONYMOUS
What exactly do you mean by you don't identify with things drug addicts do? Does this mean you weren't a low bottom drunk? Alcoholism didn't cause you to be a liar, cheat &/or thief? You didn't lie or steal in order to drink? What do you mean you don't identify? Does the fact that you were ONLY an alcoholic make you superior to a drug addict then? Because you were able to go to an acceptable liquor store to obtain your drug of choice? Because drinking is legal, being an alcoholic is legal? Each addictive substance one ingests & becomes addicted to, has their own separate means of ingestion, side effects, withdrawal symptoms and long term mental/physical consequences. However as pertaining to the consequences of what addiction does to the human life & relationships the effect is the same across the board. The solution for ALL addiction; whether it be to alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, methamphetamine, opioids, heroin or whatever ~ IS THE SAME: Stop using ALL mind altering substances, find a power greater than oneself, work to discover & correct the character defects that lead to the addiction, repairing any damage these defects caused, learning to live by spiritual principles & helping others (with the preferred method of completing these things being Working the 12 steps with someone who has worked them before you)
Acceptance & tolerance are key requirements to a joyful spirit and those of you who haven't yet acquired these are only selling yourselves short. You've missed the boat I am sorry to say. What a pity!
My take on these "arguments" is that often we are trying to win a debate point as opposed to being helpful, period. If I, an alcoholic with a bleed over to benzo's that was troublesome but not truly addicting in how it hits my chemistry, wander into an NA meeting due to: it is within walking distance on a snowy night say, and my ass is on fire, and I cannot make the perfect match connection to the AA meeting miles away, nobody seems too taken aback if A) I am polite, cordially brief and not a hijacker of the room's time and B) not on any mission of purity of purpose but rather a dude in distress that could use fellowship of a kind that is a close second-best (sometimes better) to my regular AA meetings. I am happy to reciprocate a figurative "temporary pass" at least, to any/all that find their way into MY AA meetings. Humility and common-sense need not be barred from the equation. My hunch is that an opiate abuser/addict say, feels just as antsy, desperate, defeated, jangly and worthlessly dangerous as me in the throes of my active alcoholism. If cross-attending keeps our respective first use from occuring on a given night, my hunch is our world is a better place - we can always gradually make one another feel unwelcome over time if that is the goal, to re-establish our "singularity of purpose".
Respectfully, John N.
Thank you for that! I could not agree more!
It is time for AA to recognize its own calcification, its lack of ability to flex and adapt to a changing world. Alcohol is a drug/chemical/substance and it affects the brain in the same way that other addictive substances do. "Drug addicts" have the same issues that we do, need the same self-honesty and spiritual growth that we do, deserve the benefit of a loving and accepting community, just as we all do.
If people are getting carried away during meetings with descriptions of their drunken ways, and then have difficulty relating to the "drug addict's" descriptions of their mishaps while "high", then they are all focused on the wrong things.
Meetings are about RECOVERY, and not about who did the most outrageous things back in the day.
To turn a cold shoulder to the drug addict who is reaching out for help is so abhorrent to me personally, that it causes me to question the whole AA program, from A to Z.
Love, tolerance, acceptance, service, recovery, unity.
Not exclusion, but INCLUSION! Exclusion is simply bigotry by another name, frankly. And it is our youngest and most fragile people who are in need of our experience, strength and hope, and to reject their pleas for help is unconscionable.
Recall the responsibility pledge, and examine your heart. Do you really believe it is right to pull away the hand of AA when someone is reaching out to it?
From my perpective, the trouble is this misunderstanding that a person who is alcoholic is addicted to alcohol. That is not always the case and it isn't/wasn't for me.
Alcohol effects me differently than it does a lot of other people I know. I was a blackout drinker from the beginning. I was more of a binge drinker overall, but was never physically addicted to it.
This whole misunderstanding about the nature of alcoholism is one of the most important things that AA has worked tirelessly to communicate to those who are still suffering. Read the Doctor's Opinion and you will find out that alcoholism is not necessarily about being "addicted" to a particular substance.
The answer can be true if your a drug addict but the answer is NO if your an Alcoholic.
A fruit is a fruit right, there is a huge difference between an APPLE and an ORANGE just like the huge difference between a wanna be Alcoholic and an alcoholic
As has been said again and again. Alcoholics Anonymous is for alcohlics. It's so simple It is a principle that has been with us since the beginning. I don't recall anything in the Big Book where alcoholics "reach out" to drug addicts. Should we welcome compulsive gamblers, sex addicts, "shopaholics" into the meetings of AA? We cannot, nor should we try, to be all things to all people. AA has been watered down so much, it has ceased to grow. We're at a standstill because we've been so "inclusive" and arrogant in thinking we can help any suffering person. To recover, non-alcoholics should be attending other 12-step groups. This is a selfish program
I hope the editors and readers will forgive me for such long post.
This was shared by a member of an on line group in Sept. 'o3,
I post it here with thanks to Dan K.
"Consider for a moment your first meeting?
If yours was like mine, you probably stumbled into a small AA hall somewhere.... full of fear, angry at almost everything, and yet with that vague hope that maybe there was an answer inside. You were half-eager to be there, and half-eager to bolt for the bar at the first opportunity. Maybe you were there against your will.... 'cause somebody sent you.
What would your response have been had somebody walked up to you and said, "Welcome to Anything Anonymous! I'm Gloria and as you probably noticed I'm way overweight... that's why I come. What are you, anyway? You look a little thin and emaciated. Are you a druggie? We got lots of those. Oh, so you're an alcoholic, huh? Well, don't worry about that.... we've a bunch of those here, too.
"Now, don't worry about what you hear.... you'll hear all sorts of strange things here. It's up to you to sort it out, so every time you hear the word drugs, think alcohol, and every time you hear the word over-eating, think alcohol. You'll get the hang of it after awhile. Obviously, when one of us tells the newcomer not to eat so much, that won't apply to you.... you need to eat. And if one of our gamblers asks you for a stake on a hot tip, I would recommend you not give him or her any money! Avoid the crying ones who will lean on your shoulder and tell you about their alcoholic parents.... they have there own sub-group in here, too."
I don't know what you would have done. I'll tell you what I would have done..... I'd have turned and run for the door just as fast as my feet would carry me. And if AA was like that.... I'd still be running.... if I was still alive, that is.
This matter of singleness of purpose, primary purpose and the only requirement is not, in my mind, a case to be discussed on the moral merits.... those vague and lofty pronouncements we all feel that our principles are so wonderful and work so well, we ought to be willing to share them with all God's children. They can't be discussed on that level because it's true.... our principles ARE wonderful, and they work well for a whole host of other problems that don't have anything to do with alcohol.
Nor should we discuss this from the viewpoint of an addict is an addict is an addict. Maybe that's true, and maybe it isn't. It hasn't been proven scientifically, that I know for a fact. In each case, alcoholic, addict, overeater or gambler... I find the scientific evidence clear... different areas of the brain are responding to stimuli in different ways, through the manufacture of different body chemicals. To me, similarities don't mean so much as that one difference.... that one unknown... and that is simply this: I don't know FOR SURE they are the same.... and since I don't know FOR SURE.... then I need to be keeping my big mouth shut, because my pronouncements might well kill one of them if my advice were followed.
What we need to do is clearly understand the tiger in the cage. Alcoholics. Alcoholism.
My experience was, is and likely will be this: This disease that I have is so devastating in its impact, so terrifying in its many forms, and so relentless in its cunning, baffling and powerful nature.... that it takes all my energy, almost, to stay in recovery from this one thing. I, as an alcoholic, am high maintenance. I need a lot of directed effort, and I need a lot of directed attention. I need constant focus. I need a structure in which to function devoted exclusively to what I suffer from.... alcoholism.
My denial system is a fact. It is huge. So is yours, probably, if you are an alcoholic. My delusional and fact-twisting nature is well known in the alcoholic literature. My alibi-system can do double back flips, blindfolded, and land on its feet every single time. If I let up, or change my focus, even for a very short time.... I start to deteriorate. So do we all, if common experience can be believed.
So, you see, it isn't that the ideas of sharing aren't good ones. And it isn't that many different kinds of conditions can profit from what we have. It isn't a moral question, and it isn't an issue of what would be right and what might be wrong.
It is an issue of life or death. This tiger in this cage will kill me or you if it gets loose. Let us concentrate on this one thing. That's more than enough for all of us. You see, for all the high-faluting morality and high-minded talk..... simply put.... alcoholics die until and unless there's a specific place FOR ALCOHOLICS.
One last thought: The mission statement and the traditions have never once told me what you have to do.... all they've ever done is tell me what I need to be doing. Period.
God Bless, Ya'll, and have a great week
A.A. HAS been flexible and it has almost destroyed us.
By trying to be all things to all sufferers we have not only
hurt ourselves, but have failed those we have tried to help.
Sure. we could just lump all those who suffer from addiction
into one pile. But then all we have is a pile of crap. And, in my opinion, that is what we have done slowly over the
past three decades. Drug addicts are dying. Alcoholics are
suffering and dying. Drug addicts don't suffer as much. They
just die in their sleep.
You are right. We are failing a generation of young
people. We fail them by letting them think that we of A.A.
can help them recover from drug addiction. We can indeed help them, by helping them to help themselves. As sober
members of Alcoholics Anonymous, we have a method which worked for us. We have a fellowship of men and women. We can help drug addicts to form the same type of fellowship for themselves.
An alcoholic can help an alcoholic. A drug addict
can help a drug addict. A food addict can help a food
addict. I can identify with the alcoholic and the overeater, but I have never used drugs. I have had a
crash course in drug addiction in the past few years,
and now understand why the fellowships must be separated
and kept separate, if any of them are going to survive.
If you are truely dually addicted, "doubly blessed".
form a drug addicts meeting and focus on drug use and
what goes along with drug addiction. Pattern it after
the A.A. method of the 1970's, not today's A.A. Today's
A.A. is just a twelve step program, only one of many
such programs, and has very limited success. We need
wholsale recovery methods today. Our country has an
epidemic of alcoholism and drug addiction. Bill
W. and Dr. Silkworth left us a solution many years
ago. That solution came in the form of a simple IDEA.
I have one question, how do you react to alcohol? if you find you cannot quit entirely or if when drinking you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably an alcoholic.
If you cannot relate to that simple question, In my opinion you are in the wrong fellowship. In AA we relate to each other at first by our mental obsession with alcohol and our physical allergy. we also have strange mental blank spots when we think drinking will somehow be different this time.
I am more than willing to help anyone. I am also trying not to hurt anyone any more as well.
It has been my experience that allowing someone who is not an alcoholic belong to an aa group is hurting them, the group, and any newcomer that only has an alcohol problem. When it comes time to do aa 12 step work, the nonalcoholic cannot relate their experience to the newcomer. At each aa meeting the nonalcoholic cannot give a straight aa talk pertaining to alcoholism. When someone comes to an aa meeting to find out more about their alcohol problem they will here all about problems other than alcohol from the nonalcoholic.
In AA our ego has been reduced to the level where we feel as a society that we cannot be everything to everyone. So AA as I understand it came to the conclusion long ago to do one thing well. That is to carry the message of aa to the still suffering alcoholic.
I am an expert in one area alone, MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH ALCOHOL. When I share my experience with alcohol with another alcoholic, they may come to believe this program may work for them. That might give them just enough willingness to try the aa program of action. Until such an undersanding is reached, usually little can be done for them.
Please take the time to read the pamphlet "Problems Other Than Alcohlis". It is as timely today as it was when Bill wrote it in 1958. AA. Love Mike
I can't speak for everyone but I believe the issue isn't whether or not they, (drug addicts), are allowed, (as long as they have a desire to quit drinking), it is how much time during an AA meeting should be allowed to drug talk. If a person has a desire to quit drinking they are a member if they say so, regardless of any other addictions they have. But can a drug addict who never drank or who does not want to give up drinking be an AA member. The answer of course is no. The 3rd tradition states the only requirment for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. Some folks put the emphasis on "ONLY", I would put the emphasis on "REQUIRMENT". That means you have to have it!! If you never drank or do not want to quit, (like someone I once heard in a meeting say, " alcohol is not my problem, cocaine is my problem, I like drinking, in fact I can't wait until New Years Eve so I can get wasted"), you cannot fulfill the requirement,(again MUST HAVE), so you cannot be an AA member. I believe if you are telling your story and you mention a brief thing about drugs that is fine. It is YOUR STORY. People talk about AA dying, what about NA. everyone bitches NA isn't available or isn't as good as AA. Who's fault is that?? Take your 3, 5, 10, 15, 25 good years of sobriety and go start a good NA meeting!
Ten years ago I could have written your message word for
word, and with the same passion. But I see too many drug
addicts today who are just not "making it" in the AA
fellowship. I believe it is the lack of identification.
I have attended probably 25 N/A meetings over the
past ten years. I have not been impressed. There are few
members with any length of clean time. I have seen drug
dealers at the meetings, although I have never seen a
transaction. I doubted if they were there for the right
purpose. ( yes I am judgemental). I just believe that
both fellowships can be much more effective working
side by side. There are certainly enough of each to
fill the rooms. I am personally trying to get a local
group together to form an Addicts Anonymous closed
meeting. Maybe they can best help themselves by
helping each other. Singleness of purpose. ANONYMOUS
in my experience of using the computer in the amends process, i have had nothing but positive experiences! i am up front as to the reason i am contacting them via computer.i got this from reading the book, "a new pair of glasses" i am an alcoholic, but i have found a way to live 1 day @ a time without having to drink. that condition is that i make amends.(these were made to my past girlfriends) When we were together i treated you in a manner in which you did not deserve to be treated. I WAS WRONG ! what can i do to make this right? i pray before i press the send button, that this is my HP's will for me. i go into this amends process without having any expectations. i thank my HP, my sponsor & his sponsor & this line of wise men for their guidance in me making my amends via computer. also, i thank ALL of you for my sobriety. 10-Mar-12 will be 3 yrs of being clean & sober...i cant do it, but WE can. Ha-ho
I am convinced that almost nothing good is accomplished by
contacting old girlfriends whether by phone, email or snail
mail. If you clearly owe her money, just send her a check
with a note of explanation. The chances of doing more harm
than good is too great. These names belong on our eight
step list. If the opportunity is to come, it will come.
Turn that outcome to your higher power. The possibility
of causing further harm is just not worth the risk.
Suck it up! Share it in your fifth step and let it go.
I try not to give AA advice so directly, but I am
concerned that others may make the same serious mistake.
I am also a wise man, with probably more sober experience than your sponsor's sponsor. ANONYMOUS
Are there any plans to create an I-Pad application?
They are focused on the android app right now and should be out soon, the next to be released will be the iPad app
This is from the march trustees meeting under publishing, ask your Gsr or dcm.
This month's discussion topic is based upon the story, "Pause Before You Send." www.aagrapevine.org/feature/2867 In this story, a woman discusses how she realized that her computer was not the best place to do a Ninth Step. Here is the discussion topic text:
God gave me the moment to pause before I clicked 'Friend.' And I did not listen," says the author of "Pause Before You Send." And even though she discussed the upcoming Ninth Step amend to an old friend with her sponsor, the author still had problems making it using her computer. "I should have paused. I was left with a hole in the pit of my stomach," she writes. She learned from her experience and would like to help others. "Try to get an address and a phone number," she suggests.
Have you ever made or set up up a Ninth Step amend on your computer? How did it go? Was it helpful? Would you do it again?
I was very happy to see the article written by Mimi M. of Ridgecrest, CA on the subject of Tradition Three...singleness of purpose. I seems that we have lost what the traditions mean in many meetings...open and closed. The idea that a chemical is a chemical and an addiction is an addiction is simply crazy. I don't recall every going to a restaurant and ordering a Line of Coke before dinner. Nor can I go in to a store and buy heroin.
A chemical is a chemical is of course a true statement. A
duck is a duck is equally true. I am beginning to understand
what my Texas friend means when he says that welcoming drug addicts into AA has harmed Alcoholics Anonymous. Until a few years ago, I had never seen a drug addict up close. I have come to see why AA and NA must be kept separate. There are certainly enough of each to fill the rooms.
Alcoholics Anonymous has compromised its principles,
in an attempt to be all things to all people. I believe
that most AA members understand that drug addicts cannot
become members of AA, unless they have a desire to stop
drinking. But in open meetings they have become members.
I find that they are often the first to have a hand up
to talk. They defend their right to be there. They are
often the loudest chanters, hooters and hollerers.
What are the answers? I have often considered forming
a "private meeting" by invitation only, but that would
be a last resort.
Our attempt to be all things to all people, allowing
drug addicts to become AA members, has harmed the fellowship
which could better help them. NA and AA can each be mighty
effective if they work parallel, side by side. Everyone
wins. Joined together the effectiveness of both is diminished. Severely diminished. I just do not identify
with the drug addict who gathers his friends together in
a motel room and spends thousands of dollars of someone
else's money. Or the prolonged sickness of withdrawal.
Heroin addiction is a monster in itself. Bill W. wrote
that we alcoholics are pikers, when compared to the heroin
addict. We seldom help them. I believe in Massachusetts,
over three thousand addicts died in the five year period
2002-2007. The belief that we of AA can help them is
just causing more harm. Let them help each other in NA,
where they can really identify. Stop watering down both
fellowships. This posting is what I would call pure
opinion, just my observation. ANONYMOUS
Which program do you suggest I attend since I am an alcoholic who did drugs, gambled and overate? How do I honestly share my experience without mentioning these things?
I am an alcohilic because when I honestly want to I cant quit entirely(mental obsession)and while drinking I have little control over the amount I take(physical allergy). Left to my own thinking at some point I will think it's ok to drink just before I drink or will drink for whatever reason.
I know I can't drink as much as a thimble of alcohol without setting the cycle in motion. so obviously I can't safely use other substances.
Now that know I am an alcoholic, I have been beaten down enough by alcohol to accept the program of AA. To do 12 step work I carry the message of how I recovered to other alcoholics. That helps me with my daily reprieve from alcohhol.
I'm not sure how the other programs work, but obviously I wouldn't relate to an over eater, so why would I attend meetings of that society to help my Alcoholism.
In the AA pamphlet "problems other than alcohol" is states "Sobriety-freedom from alcohol-through the teaching and practice of teh 12 steps is the sole purpose of an AA group.
So I would suggest you find out what your primary problems are and attend that fellowship to the fullest, meaning begin to practice it's 12 steps.
Good Luck :)
"Which program do you suggest I attend since I am an alcoholic who did drugs, gambled and overate? How do I honestly share my experience without mentioning these things?"
Why not do what many others do? Attend all four programs. Share your experience with alcohol at AA meetings and your other experiences at the other meetings?
My experience has shown me that those who insist on sharing their drug use at AA do so for several reasons;
Sharing about drug use in an AA meeting is a subtle way to deny one's alcoholism. And by identifying as an alcoholic one can deny one's addiction.
To show others that one is different or special.
The person sharing is an addict who drank, but not really an alcoholic according to the descriptions given in "The Doctor's Opinion" and Chapter Three.
And in case you're interested, I sponsor a gent who belongs to AA, NA, OA and GA. I found out about his other problems over coffee, not during a meeting.
I suggest reading the anecdote which begins in the last paragraph on page 141 of the "12 & 12." The final sentence is "Never did he trouble anyone with his other difficulty."
When you to a AA meeting You are a Alcoholic period.
My inability to look you in the eye when I got to aa was very apparent, but not to me. I didn"t believe it when a prospective employer mentioned that fault in a followup share. When I got sober, and an aa with several years sober talked to me, he looked me in the eye. I found myself looking back. And that made a difference in my confidence. I have also learned to move through relationships with coworkers especially, by praying a lot. When I had conflicts with people before I got sober, I could only see their mistakes...and that made me feel bad. Somehow responsible. But now I have the tools to pray for the other person, and look at my part. That way I have been blessed with having stuck with the same job for 25 years, and the same relationship with a woman for over 22 years. Now I am seeing how the 6th and 7th steps are so important. I have been sober for 27 years, but am just now seeing myself with enough confidence to stay strong and carry on. I love aa.
I have heard that AA will only destroy itself with in. Saving money is a good thing but not our Singleness of purpose. Getting folks to change there Subscription from paper to online is a mistake. I for one take my read copy's to the County Jail, City Jail, Hospital, Clinic, Substance Abuse Clinic and County Health Dept.Hard to do with one copy a month so I encourage others to pass the Grapevine on. When the online was first introduced it was in addition too, and now it's being put out there as a cost saving device. what happened to saving lives? Oh, that's right saving lives is less important than saving money...Way to come up with a great idea Grapevine committee.
Interesting. I prefer online. It is more expensive than print. Call AA and they will revert online to print for you.
I prefer online because of the archives, more topics covered, searching for a particular issue, etc. Also, if I want to distribute an article to somebody it is easy to print it or e-mail it.
I have changed my paper one for the one on computor and i miss my paper one for the same reason not the same. Don't have compuor where ever i go. Mark B