Magazine Discussion Topic

270 replies [Last post]
RE: Drug addicts in A.A

Identification is the backbone of recovery from
addiction, whether alcohol, drugs or food. Bill W.
explains that on page 70 in our history book, Alcoholics
Anonymous Comes of Age. I simply do not identify with
the drug addict. And she/he probably will not identify
with me.
A drug is a drug is a drug. That statement is true.
It is equally true that a duck is a duck is a duck.
Both statements are just nonsense.
We fail both the alcoholic and the drug addict by
allowing the drug addict to become an A.A. member.
In meetings I attend, we are tolerant of members
who state that they are addicts. By saying My name Joe
and I am an addict, and continuing to share at an
A.A. meeting, the requirement tradition is violated.
If those A.A. members who are also drug addicts,
and there are many, would get involved in N/A or
similar fellowship, addicts would have a chance at
recovery through identification. Combining the two
fellowships harms almost everyone. ANONYMOUS

Joined: 2012-01-18
Re: Drug Addicts in AA

"I suggest all of you who are raging in resentment over "drug addicts" being in AA re-read "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" in the Big Book, as he used drugs. (page 171)"
A) the first mention of drugs (sedatives) in "Dr. Bob's nightmare" is on page 176, not 171. It is mentioned again on page 177.
B) There is no documentation that Dr. Bob or Bill W. were ever addicted to drugs (except nicotine), nor did they ever identify themselves as addicts. On the contrary, They seem to have had no trouble at all in giving up any drug use.
C) There is a world of difference between mentioning (one or two sentences) drug use and sharing about drug use at length in print or a live meeting.
C) Insisting that AA abandon the Traditions, that AA change to suit the addict, is the ultimate in selfishness, which our Big Book calls "...the root of our problem.
D) With all the twelve step programs available, why are addicts the only ones who refuse to attend the ones that address their problem and insist on joining AA? Denial, Perhaps?


the first mention of drugs is the first line of the 2nd letter of the dr.s opinion...nice your homework.

I totally agree with ADO1046

I am coming up on thirty years and have heard almost every reason why an addict believes he/she has a right to belong to .AA.

I believe this (A Drug is A Drug) came out of spin dry units.

One of the founders of N A wrote a letter to A A thanking us first for allowing them to use OUR PROGRAM and went further in thanking the AA Membership for asking addicts not dually addicted persons to go to N A meetings.

As he said in the letter, if they had not been asked leave their NA program would not have grown.

The letter can be found in the Grapevine archives by searching = (letter from N A) I highly suggest reading that letter.

Joined: 2012-10-31
alcoholic / addict

when i hear you say i am an alcoholic and an addict, I can't identify with you. It tells me you are different than me. I believe the one word we cannot do without is identification. could you not be an alcoholic at an AA meeting and an addict at a NA meeting ? We have a singleness of purpose from our 5th Tradition that states we carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic.

Joined: 2012-10-19
Addicts in AA

Oh me... Whatever happened to Tradition 3? The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking? Where in the Traditions does it say we have to identify ourselves as alcoholics in closed meetings? I came into AA "through the drug door", and was well into my 5th step before I realized I was also an alcoholic. I was 6-1/2 months sober before I could use the word "alcoholic" to identify myself. Thank GOD my AA group only required me to say I had a desire to stop drinking in order to attend their closed meetings. They told me if I had a drug problem then I better have a desire to stop drinking. One of our old timers makes the statement at least once a week, "When I first entered the fellowship, I didn't think I had a problem with alcohol." Somebody was patient with him way back then. Thank God.

Joined: 2012-01-18
Re: Addicts in AA

From the time I took my first drink (drunk) I felt different. I never felt like I belonged until I had a few drinks. At my first AA meeting, which I attended so I could say I tried AA and it didn't work, I identified with the alcoholics present and felt at home. For the first time in 20+ years I didn't feel different. Identifying as something other than an alcoholic in an AA meeting is nothing more than a way to show I'm different from the rest.
I too often hear the statement "I didn't think I had a problem with alcohol" And I often ask, "Then why did you come to AA?"
People don't schedule appointments with ophthalmologists unless they have vision problems.
Many alcoholics, myself included, cheat on their spouses while drinking. I have yet to hear one identify as an 'alcoholic and and adulterer' and go into a detailed account of their affairs. In my forty-one years of AA membership I don't recall hearing anyone identify as an alcoholic and compulsive gambler and recite a list of crap games and horse races.
Addicts who love to use Tradition Three as justification for avoiding NA invariably ignore the final sentence in that anecdote in the essay on the tradition in the 12 & 12: "Never did he trouble anyone with his other difficulty."
and they avoid the pamphlet, "Problems Other Than Alcohol" like the plague.

Again I have to agree

H u g h
London Ontario

re addicts in aa

Tradition 3 longform(you can find it in the back of the big book) states "our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism"

You are a member of AA if you say you are. At my homegroup we have in the format read at each meeting as follows: in keeping with our 3rd and 12th tradition we ask that when introducing yourself, please use your name if you so choose and that you are alcoholic or have a desire to stop drinking, nothing more. This helps us protect our newcomers from outsiders attending our meetings and protects our tradition of being as anonymous as each member so chooses.

So in closing, you have to at least suffer from alcoholism to be a member of aa. If you read our pamphlet the AA group it says nonalcoholics may attend "open" meetings as observers. so if you are new and not sure, please attend our open meetings. closed meetings are for alcoholics. In my opinion it's because newcomers that are only alcoholics won't identify with the addicts and have less of a chance to recover. addicts have many other fellowships to belong to. Alcoholics only have AA.

Thanks for reading,
Corey in Mn

Alcoholic and addict

I am a member of AA and i attend AA meetings every day. I have not had a drink since 2010 but i consider my sobriety date 2-14-2012 because that was the day i stopped using all mind altering substances. I am a addict in AA. I choose to call my self both. I know if i have a drink it will lead to other things that i abused in the past such as drugs. My AA meeting has been working for me the past 8 1/2 months, so that is what i choose to keep doing. I get no shame in saying that i am a addict at a AA meeting and i get no bad looks when i say i am a alcoholic; addict. If it works for you i say do it, and hold your head high!

Alcoholic and addict

I am a member of AA and i attend AA meetings every day. I have not had a drink since 2010 but i consider my sobriety date 2-14-2012 because that was the day i stopped using all mind altering substances. I am a addict in AA. I choose to call my self both. I know if i have a drink it will lead to other things that i abused in the past such as drugs. My AA meeting has been working for me the past 8 1/2 months, so that is what i choose to keep doing. I get no shame in saying that i am a addict at a AA meeting and i get no bad looks when i say i am a alcoholic; addict. If it works for you i say do it, and hold your head high!

Alcoholic and Addict

"If it works for you i say do it, and hold your head
high." I would have to search to find any humility here.
I feel it would be best to bow our heads and thank God
for his saving grace. Being an addict or alcoholic is
hardly reason to be proud. Humility, expressed by
anonymity, is the foundation of our fellowship.ANONYMOUS

Joined: 2011-06-27

What is the "freethinkers" group. I think for a long time AA itself became my Higher Power. My service work was cleaning ash trays & making coffee. Today I thank the God of my understanding.


I too am wondering about this "free thinkers group." I dont understand it and am confused. Trying to not judge, and to live and let live.Ive asked a few sober people in recovery that I respect and they have said that if its working for them then who are we to judge. Any one with a drinking problem is welcome. I guess my issue is, can anyone start an AA group and it be an approved AA meeting. Does it affect AA as a whole? Does it change what the Big Book says when they read from it and God is mentioned. A God of their own understanding, not mine or anyone elses. I guess if they read out of Big Book and do not take away or add anything it isnt affecting AA as whole. I feel if I was given a third option though when I walked into an AA approved meeting and found out I didnt have to change my View on this God thing it would have killed me. I read Tradition three and it brought a bit of clarity to me, but still a bit confused.


I am one of the dreaded drug addicts that all the fuss is about. I was ordered by the courts to attend AA meetings as part of a 3yr suspended sentence on a meth manufacturing charge. I didn't want to quit using & I knew positively I didn't belong in a room with a bunch of dirty homeless alkies for sure! I balked, refusing to attend & continuing to use for about 3 mos when my probation officer, after my 3rd or 4th dirty UA result, informed me I had only 1 last chance to avoid prison. Quit using & attend 3 AA meetings a week or serve out the remainder of my sentence in prison. I took her advice. By the second week I was attending multiple AA meetings daily. The town I was in had a huge AA community but their NA fellowship only had 1 member who had managed to maintain any long-term sobriety ( gained from the AA program). I knew if I'd attended the NA meetings the only thing I would've accomplished there is meeting new connections to supply the drug habit I was desperate become willing to be relieved of.
The members of Alcoholics Anonymous not only welcomed me in but took me in & loved me until I could love myself. They showed me a new way of life that I had never known before, I have experienced peace & true joy for the first time.
You see I started out drinking as a young child, but being the child of an alcoholic I knew I never wanted to be like my father, so as soon as I was introduced to cocaine I traded my addiction to alcohol, then when I couldn't live with the fact that I'd become a coke junkie shooting that crap in my arms, I discovered crank or meth. At least I didn't have to use a syringe to enjoy the full effect of the speed ~ I could snort it or put it in my coffee & drink it and it didn't carry the same stigma as injecting coke did.
Today I know I cannot drink alcohol either because eventually it will lead me back to my drug of choice.
I will be forever grateful for the acceptance & tolerance of those AA's In my first days of sobriety who patiently waited for me to find the willingness to get clean, then taking my outstretched hand they lead me on the scariest, most painful, healing, miraculous, beautiful journey up through the steps & into this awesome happy new life that I live today. I feel like the butterfly that's emerged from its cocoon. And in my heart I know its because the members of AA in New Mexico took seriously the responsibility declaration:
"I AM RESPONSIBLE. When ANYONE, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there. And for that I am responsible."
And for this I AM ALSO RESPONSIBLE! And very gratefully so!

RE AA Saved

Your early problem with alcohol qualifies you to be a member of AA.
The following excerpts from AA Conference approved pamphlets, “The AA Group’ and “Problems other than Alcohol” Should clear the ground a bit on the subject of drug addicts in AA. Regardless of what my personal opinion on the matter is, the facts are as follows:
From page 13 of “The Group”, Closed meetings are for AA members only, or those who have a drinking problem and have a desire to stop drinking.
Open meetings are available to anyone interested in AA’s program of recovery from alcoholism. Non-alcoholics may attend open meetings as observers.
This tells me you have to at least be a problem drinker to be a member of AA and that non-alcoholics including drug addicts may attend open meetings as observers, not as a member or participant of the meeting.
There is also a lot of information in the AA pamphlet “Problems Other Than Alcohol”. To keep this short, I will only list a snippet, but please read this pamphlet to come to you own “informed” decision on this matter. It says, “Therefore, I see no way of making non-alcoholic addicts into AA members. Experience says loudly that we can admit no exceptions, even though drug users and alcoholics happen to be first cousins of a sort. If we persist in trying this, I’m afraid it will be hard on the drug user himself, as well as on AA. We must accept the fact that no nonalcoholic, whatever his affliction, can be converted into an alcoholic AA member”.
So there you have it. If a particular group wants to have meetings that people other than alcoholics participate in, go ahead. All you need to do is not call it an AA meeting or AA group.
If cocaine or meth is your problem, take what you have learned and start a CA or MA group where addicts can attend that identify with you. You will be more effective with the addicts and the AA group you have been attending will be more effective with helping alcoholics. I think that is why we have a singleness of purpose.

Thanks for reading

Joined: 2012-02-25
Re AA saved:

Re AA saved:

Thanks Corey for your astute comments on drugs and drug addicts in AA. I would like to add the 12 traditions do not support addicts being AA members or attending closed meetings. Unless they are alcoholics or have a desire to stop drinking (tradition 3) they should be restricted to visitor status only at open meetings. They do not have the membership right of sharing at AA meetings.

No doubt AA can help addicts but that is not the issue here. Drugs are outside issues (tradition 10) and dilute our singleness of purpose (tradition 5). AA groups allowing addicts to attend their meetings break with traditions 3 and 4. These practices adversely affect other groups and AA as a whole. Addicts and many AA members ask how that is so. The answer is simple. Outside issues destroy AA unity (tradition 1) the basic foundation of all our traditions. AA is meant only for alcoholics for good reasons. We have a common solution (12 steps and 12 traditions) for our common problem (alcoholism). Many alcoholics are unable to identify with drug addicts and drug-a-logs and have nowhere else to go for recovery from alcoholism. Addicts have many other 12 step programs to attend.

Tradition 1 states, “Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon AA unity.” Addicts sharing at AA meetings ignore or disrespect our traditions by their presence. They place their personal recovery ahead of the common welfare of AA. Addicts in AA are either ignorant of our traditions or have a bad case of terminal uniqueness.

Do I have issues/addictions other than alcoholism? Yes. Do I bring them into AA meetings? No. I introduce myself only as an alcoholic and restrict my sharing to recovery from alcoholism. That, I believe, is the power of attraction and hope for other alcoholics that they will want what we have and keep coming back.

Mike B.
Oliver, BC


Again taken from our text.
Hugh London Ontario

Re: Re: AA Saved

I'll add one more quote from AA literature to those Corey posted.
The 12 & 12, pages 141 and 142, tells the story of the first alcoholic with another problem who approached AA. The main difference between that gentleman and today's addicts is in the sentence, "Never did he trouble anyone with his other difficulty."
Jim S.

Singleness of purpose

As an alcoholic, drug addiction doesn't disturbe me much in AA rooms. As a newcomer, I just wish sex addiction and predators would go elsewhere for help. Hope the program will work for me so I can grow stronger and help others in more safety feelings.

re: Magazine Discussion Topic | AA Grapevine

This is in response to the article in the August Grapevine submitted by an anonymous atheist about the nature of our primary purpose. He or she writes that they are troubled that our Big Book “is clearly written in a moral tone, more Christian than anything”. No surprise there. Before there was a Big Book, Bill and Dr. Bob searched for answers in select Bible readings. Alcoholics Anonymous in Ohio split off from the Oxford meetings (a modern attempt to mimic first century Christianity). Our Big Book describes how the first 100 sobered up after that split from purely religious philosophy. I hope you are not suggesting that we rewrite history. I fully agree with the writer that an AA meeting is not the place for sharing personal religious beliefs. I also cringe when someone makes any reference to a personal creed or deity. Nor is cross talking a good idea, yet that happens too. Sharing at length about family problems or work issues without reference to recovery is also inappropriate. Many meeting formats suggest that “we take what we need and leave the rest”. You might try that my anonymous friend. You might also take a look at page 90 of the Twelve and Twelve. “It is a spiritual axiom” (whoops, there is that word again) “that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us”. If you cannot lay aside your prejudice against spiritual terms such as these, perhaps you can take your resentment and a coffee pot and start an Atheists Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. Personally, I hope you don’t. I fully believe that our strength comes from others in the group. We have much to learn from each other. Victor K, St. Louis, MO

Atheist aa

When I read that article in the grapevine, it made me want to move to Austin. It was so refreshing to hear someone who feels as I do. Unlike the writer above, I hear no sign of resentment from Jerry S. What I do hear from Victor, is if you won't support my way of thinking, I'm going to cut you down, call you names, take your inventory. One of my favorite lines is, if I am okay with myself, I have no need to make you wrong.

Thank you jerry, for your refreshing and honest submission to grapevine.

Joined: 2012-03-04
June 2012: Welcome to Akron! Special Founders Day Issue

I am sad to see what is happening in Akron. What has happened to guardianship of our Traditions? What has happened to modesty in our public relations? Thousands of alcoholics gathering together to celebrate a mass public event is repeating Washingtonian movement history. The motorcycle motorcade to Dr. Bob’s grave is reminiscent of the Washingtonian’s triumphant parade in Boston. The destruction of the Washingtonian movement is a warning written into A.A. Tradition. I do not believe Dr. Bob or Bill W. would have condoned such mass public events to mark their meeting in 1935; they would have spoken against it. It smacks of unhealthy religious emotionalism. Neither of them wanted a monument on their graves connecting them to A.A. Their monument was Alcoholics Anonymous. Better to let them rest in peace, in respect of their anonymity. Mark their meeting in another way, in gratitude and respect of their leadership by guarding your Third Legacy, guarding Traditions, spending time with a newcomer, or visiting an alcoholic in a hospital medical ward instead.

Extracts from “Modesty One Plank for Good Public Relations” by Bill W:

… “Mass meeting in 1841, at City Hall Park, New York City, attracted 4,000 listeners. Speakers stood on upturned rum kegs." "Triumphal parades in Boston. Historic Faneuil Hall jammed." (Overdone self-advertising--exhibitionism? Anyhow, it sounds very alcoholic, doesn't it!) "Politicians looked hungrily at the swelling membership. . .”

…“We are sure that if the original Washingtonians could return to this planet they would be glad to see us learning from their mistakes. They would not regard our observations as aimless criticism. Had we lived in their day we might have made the same errors. Perhaps we are beginning to make some of them now.
So we need to constantly scrutinize ourselves carefully, in order to make everlastingly certain that we always shall be strong enough and single purposed enough from within, to relate ourselves rightly to the world without.
Now then, does A.A. have a public relations policy? Is it good enough? Are its main principles clear? Can it meet changing conditions over the years to come?”…. (Bill W. AA Grapevine August 1945, The Language of the Heart pp 3-6)

With courts ruling AA is religious, something is going drastically wrong with AA public relations.
The Washingtonian Movement can be found in the following AA publications:

The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions: Tradition Ten
Pass it On pp 325n 354, 366-7n
The Language of The Heart pp 4-5, 7, 11, 43
Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age pp 77, 124-125

RE: Welcome to Akron!

I wonder how many of today's AA members have any clue
as to what you are writing about. Recently at an AA
meeting a member stated that he had never heard of the
Language of the Heart book. He has 29 years sobriety.
I hope you are still attending meetings and voicing
your concerns. It is not easy to do so. No one seems to be
interested in the traditions. Traditions meetings are
scarce. Our 21 trustees are the custodians of our
traditions. They are out of reach of the membership.
I wrote personal letters to every trustee a few years
ago and not one of them responded. NOT ONE! I sent
emails to the chairman of the board of trustees last
year, expressing my concerns. I did not get so much
as an acknowledgement, complete silence.
I really could not believe that a monument to Dr. Bob
was erected in Akron. But I believe it is there. Dr.
Bob and Bill W. must be "spinning in their graves"
screaming NO! NO!. We have made lots of mistakes,
blunders Bill calls them. Bill warned us about almost
all of them. Yes Alcoholics Anonymous is faltering on
the edge of collapse. Our membership numbers show the
sad truth. It is sad to see such a wonderful solution
(which works) distorted and eventually will be lost.
Thanks for your message and your concern. ANONYMOUS

tradition meetings

In my town, there are quite a few book studies that alternate the BB with the 12+12. Sometimes, when we get to discussing the traditions, it is enlightening and educational, but more often the participants are either bored or on a soapbox about this-or-that group who doesn't follow the traditions. The only cure that I can imagine would work for me is if we could focus on the spirit of the traditions. WHY they matter.

I am reminded of the Pharisees in the Bible. Jesus told the people to beware of those who clean the outside of the cup, but the inside is dirty. Bill says to get our own house in order first, then the true spirit of how the traditions work will be made clear to us.

Fair warning. love,

Fair warning.

May 2012 Issue Uprooted

I woke up this morning praying for guidance. I have had a terrible financial year, despite what looks like a fairly successful business, I haven't done a good job at running it and I am not running at a profit. As a matter of fact, I have suffered fairly substantial loss.

I've been sober two years, but that just means I have not been drinking. I haven't been truly sober. I ran away from most of my drinking triggers, but I'm still basically a dry drunk. I've allowed anger and old resentments to come through in business and that has really hurt me financially.

I didn't start out in AA the right way, and now that I've got 2 years, I don't know how to start. i had a temporary sponsor, but i never got one after that. i worked the steps once, and then didn't start them again. i go to a meeting once in awhile and feel great afterward, but then i don't go back for weeks and i go back to being what i know is a bit better than what i was before, but not what i'd like to be.

my financial condition weighs on me so much that i worry constantly about it. i worry in my dreams when i can sleep. i worry when i wake and most of the day despite my best efforts to meditate and pray to let go and let God, for God's guidance and to accept what is and to take things a day at a time. Thanks.

Hang in There

I know how that feels. I have eleven years of sobriety, and I can still be "on a dry drunk" if I allow myself to do that. And, my finances aren't in the greatest shape as well. However, I am finally realizing that A.A. is a program of recovery, not a program of "Let's get rich---quick!"
I hope and pray that since you have written this post that you have found a *real* sponsor, and have begun working the Steps with him/her. They are the solutions for worry, and many other situations which can consume us. And, attending meetings is where we alkies find that a problem shared is a problem cut in half.
As you go through the journey through the Steps, you will be amazed at how many things change. In my case, I've found that although I don't LIKE my financial condition, the first step toward change is accepting it just as it is now. Then, I talk with my sponsor, and ask my Higher Power, Whom I choose to call God for guidance, direction and protection!
I hope this post helps you or another alkie in the "dry drunk" stage. I also hope that I haven't posted too late to help *you*. May God Bless you---real good!

Just Another Alkie :-)

Unemployed with Complications

I lost my job in January 2012 and have issues of my professional license on the line. I spiraled down to isolation and all day drinking. I found AA and was wrapped in a blanket of love and compassion I didn't know existed. I became sober the next day (May 10th.) There are others who are basically in the same position career wise and I find solice talking to them. I've got a great sponser and I attend meetings daily. I have to live day by day. I still have these legal problems hanging over my head and because of this I cannot get a job to make a living. This problem will not be resolved soon.
It's OK! At least I have sobriety and people I can talk to who understand how my mind works. I know great things will happen and I already see some now.


Start attending some "Step Study" groups. There you will find clues on how to manage your life & meet people who have already learned to do the same. Perhaps even a sponsor who has solved his financial problems.

Joined: 2012-02-23
re uprooted

I know exactly how you feel. i did the same thing, but for a couple weeks and not 2 years.

My sponsor taught me to read pages 84-88(steps 10 & 11) as part of my daily meditation. after a while practicing 10 & 11 became automatic.

The next part is reading chapter 7 as often as possible. it taught me how to work step 12.

Finally, find a sponsor that practices the 12 steps as a way of life. hard to find, but easy to spot. they are happy, joyous, free, and don't give hysterical advise.

Good luck.

Joined: 2011-07-15
Drug addicts are allowed in AA

After reading posts about certain people thinking drug addicts should not be allowed in AA I am irate!!!! My AA meetings welcome us drug addicts and if they did not I'd prob still be using . AA is here for anyone who has the deire to stop drinking and w/ many of us when we drank we then in turn used drugs... And seeing as alcohol is a drug I just don't understand anyone having a problem w/ drug addicts attending the meetings. Maybe we all need to be more understanding of anyone who enters the rooms wanting help. I say welcome anyone w/ an addiction . Afterall we can save lives or be judgemental and turn someone away who finally reached out for help and was turned away . WAKE UP AND HELP YOUR FELLOW MAN OR WOMAN WHO ASKS FOR OUR HELP!!!

Just a suggestion

With those, with your other addiction I am sure you would have enough to start an N A meeting and allow the A A meeting to do what it does best.

As your needs are not being fully met in a A A meeting, and just being dry or in your case not picking up is not a condition that one can call being sober in the true meaning as it is referred to in the B B Book.

In a N A meeting you would be called out on various shares where at an A A meeting they would not have a clue for a way to help you. Unless that is what you are worried about

Like I said with almost 30 years I have seen and heard both sides of the story.

Hugh London Ontario

RE: Drug addicts are allowed in AA

So are cons, liars, cheats and thief's - Whats your point?
Support them too !!!!

AA & Addicts

As long as you say you're an alcoholic you are welcome no matter how many other problems you have,especially "anger" which you seem to have in abundance.

Joined: 2012-01-18
Drug addicts are allowed in AA

You should read the pamphlet, Problems Other Than Alcohol."
This has been an ongoing argument for more years than I care to count. I have yet to hear one honest reason for addicts to avoid NA, CA, or one of the hundreds of programs designed for drug users. Many excuses but not one valid reason.
Based strictly on my personal observation and listening to addicts I have come to my own conclusions.
A. By coming to AA meetings an addict can deny his/her addiction.
B. By identifying as an addict at an AA meeting he/she can deny his/her alcoholism.
C. being an addict at an AA meeting allows the addict to be different, to stand out, to be special.
A drug is a drug is a drug? So what? Not all drugs are addictive. Aspirin is a drug, how many aspirin addicts attend AA meetings?
I have an addiction in addition to my alcoholism. When I felt the craving for that particular substance I used and the craving disappeared until the drug left my system. I didn't crave alcohol until I took a drink, and then with each drink the craving grew, it didn't diminish.

Where else will they go?

They screwed up NA, where else can they go?

Joined: 2012-01-18
Re: Where else will they go?

"They screwed up NA, where else can they go?"
They can go back to NA and work to straighten it out.

Joined: 2011-08-26
where else will they go

N A is not screwed up. It is the person that screwed up while attending their meetings. My experience is they run a tougher program and those who screw up there think they can get some sympathy from one of the little old ladies in A A that does not understand their problems because she had not taken the same path.

Go back to N/A.

Why would they have any interest on returning to N/A?
They are comfortable with us in AA. They have been allowed
to become AA members the same as the rest of us. They will
remain unless and until we begin steering them back to their own fellowship. I have heard that in some parts of the country,
if a member makes the statement "my name is Jim and I am
an alcoholic and addict", the group chants "two bucks in the basket", and the visitor is informed that "this is
an AA meeting".
My real concern is that most addicts do not remain
abstinent in AA or N/A. In a one hour N/A meeting, at
least 20 minutes is spent reading "required" redundant
material. They have followed AA with that ritual.
Parallel, AA and N/A can offer a real solution to
alcoholism and drug addiction. Combine them (which we have
done for decades) and both fellowships lose their effectiveness. Today's AA member, and N/A member have
no idea how to carry the message of recovery. Both fellowships have had the "cart before the horse" for
the past 25 years. Until we return the horse to
its proper position, alcoholics and addicts will
continue to suffer. This suffering is not necessary.
Study Bill W.'s words on page 70 in AA Comes Of Age,
concerning how to carry the message to others. ANONYMOUS

Joined: 2012-03-04
re: Drug addicts are allowed in AA

“Now there are certain things that AA cannot do for anybody, regardless of what our several desires or sympathies may be.

Our first duty, as a society, is to insure our own survival. Therefore we have to avoid distractions and multi-purpose activity. An AA group, as such, cannot take on all the personal problems of its members, let alone the problems of the whole world.

Sobriety--freedom from alcohol--through the teaching and practice of the Twelve Steps, is the sole purpose of an AA group. Groups have repeatedly tried other activities and they have always failed. It has also been learned that there is no possible way to make non-alcoholics into AA members. We have to confine our membership to alcoholics and we have to confine our AA groups to a single purpose. If we don't stick to these principles, we shall almost surely collapse. And if we collapse, we cannot help anyone.

To illustrate, let's review some typical experiences. Years ago, we hoped to give AA membership to our families and to certain non-alcoholic friends who had been greatly helpful. They had their problems, too, and we wanted them in our fold. Regretfully, we found that this was impossible. They couldn't make straight AA talks; nor, save a few exceptions, could they identify with new AA members. Hence, they couldn't do continuous Twelfth Step work. Close to us as these good folks were, we had to deny them membership. We could only welcome them at our open meetings.

Therefore I see no way of making non-alcoholic addicts into AA members. Experience says loudly that we can admit no exceptions, even though drug users and alcoholics happen to be first cousins of a sort. If we persist in trying this, I'm afraid it will be hard on the drug user himself, as well as on AA. We must accept the fact that no non-alcoholic, whatever his affliction, can be converted into an alcoholic AA member.”……….

........“I'm very sure that these experiences of yesterday can be the basis of resolving today's confusions about the narcotic problem. This problem is new, but the AA experience and Tradition which can solve it is already old and time-tested. I think we might sum it up like this:
We cannot give AA membership to non-alcoholic narcotics-addicts. But like anyone else, they should be able to attend certain open AA meetings, provided, of course, that the groups themselves are willing. AA members who are so inclined should be encouraged to band together in groups to deal with sedative and drug problems. But they ought to refrain from calling themselves AA groups.

There seems to be no reason why several AAs cannot join, if they wish, with a group of straight addicts to solve the alcohol and the drug problem together. But, obviously, such a "dual purpose" group should not insist that it be called an AA group nor should it use the AA name in its title. Neither should its "straight addict" contingent be led to believe that they have become AA members by reason of such an association.”

Bill W. (Co-founder of AA)

(Extracts from “Problems other than alcohol” The Language of the Heart pp 222-225. AA Grapevine, February 1958,)

Joined: 2012-03-04
re: Drug Addicts are allowed in AA

To be fair to alcoholics who have other addictions I think Bill W’s summary of what AA Cannot do for narcotics addicts ought to have been included in the above post. Just in case there are some of those comical “pure alcoholics” about. The meaning of AA’s singleness of purpose in Tradition Five is however, clear and unequivocal.

Bill W's summary:

“Suppose, though, that we are approached by a drug addict who nevertheless has had a genuine alcoholic history. There was a time when such a person would have been rejected. Many early AAs had the almost comical notion that they were "pure alcoholics"--guzzlers only, no other serious problems at all. When alcoholic "ex-cons" and drug users first turned up there was much pious indignation. "What will people think?" chanted the pure alcoholics. Happily, this foolishness has long since evaporated.

One of the best AAs I know is a man who had been seven years on the needle before he joined up with us. But prior to that, he had been a terrific alcoholic and his history proved it. Therefore he could qualify for AA and this he certainly did. Since then, he has helped many AAs and some non-AAs with their pill and drug troubles. Of course, that is strictly his affair and is no way the business of the AA group to which he belongs. In his group he is a member because, in actual fact, he is an alcoholic. Such is the sum of what AA Cannot do--for narcotics addicts or for anybody else.”

Bill W. (Co-founder of AA)

(Extract from “Problems other than alcohol” The Language of the Heart pp 222-225 AA Grapevine February 1958)

Joined: 2012-01-18
Re: anonymous; re: Drug Addicts are allowed in AA

"...Just in case there are some of those comical “pure alcoholics” about." Comical? What's so comical about alcoholics or alcoholism? Perhaps you're positive there is no such thing as an alcoholic who didn't get addicted to drugs? Bill W. saw fit to differentiate between the "real alcoholic" and the "certain type of hard drinker" when he wrote the Big Book.
Insisting that AA abandon the traditions to admit anyone and everyone with a problem is not the least bit comical, but very arrogant.
Jim S.

Who and why?

You won't find a real Alcoholic in a NA meeting that's for sure.

Who and Why

True, you won't find them. But they may be there. They
just do not identify themselves as alcoholics. They respect
the fellowship they are in. I am a real alcoholic, and have
never abused drugs, and have been to several NA meetings. Do you get my drift? ANONYMOUS

Problems other than alcohol.

Thanks for taking the time and energy to post this for
those who are not interested enough to look it up. It is
time to acknowledge the fact that combining alcoholics
and drug addicts in one fellowship has been another
blunder. The trial and error period has gone on much too
long. Both fellowships have been greatly harmed, in my
opinion. It is not that one is any better or worse than
the other, just different. We need to return to our
singleness of purpose.
If a dual addicted alcoholic has any interest in
helping the drug addict, expend a little energy and get
involved in the creation of a meeting of addicts where
they can help each other. And I do not mean an N/A
meeting. I mean a fellowship where recovered and
recovering addicts can share experience, strength and
hope with each other, not to read to each other, and
chant, yell, hoot and holler. The N/A. meetings I
have gone to just read the same readings over and over
which consumes much of meeting time. I see very little
success at those meetings. Many are just loud nonsense,
just like many A.A. meetings.
If enough of us continue to remain silent, both
alcoholics and drug addicts will have no hope. ANONYMOUS

Joined: 2012-03-04
re: Problems other than alcohol

Thank you for your reply, I agree with what you say. AA must stick to its singleness of purpose or disintegrate like the Washingtonian movement. But I think it would be better if both AA and NA sorted out the unruly behaviour issues in meetings, rather than alcoholic- narcotics addicts forming yet another type of fellowship.

I thought you’d like to know that if ever you want to use a quote from Language of the Heart in your posts, it’s quick and easy to look up the article in the AA Grapevine archive and then copy and paste. I feel a twinge of guilt, you thanking me for my time and energy.

Addicts in AA are OK with me

You have my sympathy and support. Addiction is addiction is addiction, whether it is to alcohol, coke, or cigarettes.
I am hoping that with enough work, we can find the momentum to effect some carefully thought out change within AA.
Hang in there, follow the steps, read, journal, meditate and pray, and share your thoughts, feelings and concerns with your sponsor. Tap into your spiritual source, and know that you are a cherished child of the infinite universe for all time.

Joined: 2011-08-26
Just a suggestion


A generational issue (Drug addicts and AA)

My sponsor pointed out to me that you won't find anyone under 35 years old in AA arguing that drug addicts should be kept out. That's because they either used drugs themselves or are tolerant toward those who did and are now in recovery. They are baffled by this whole controversy.

It's the older folks who are trying to keep AA pure. All I can say to them is, good luck...

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