631 replies [Last post]

Hi Cory, of course you are assuming people who do not like Big Book quotes don't know any ;) This is not the case. A monkey can come into AA and be a Big Book Guru after a few months. I have found the most blustering and boastful drunks at the bar come into the rooms and become the biggest blowhards in AA. Only alcohol has been removed. I think it is not healthy to confuse ones ability to quote pages with one's quality of sobriety. If you believe quoting the Big Book leads to an easy-bake recovery than I don't know what to say. Not everything in the Big Book adheres to our Preamble which is all-inclusive and life-saving. Since you enjoy page numbers check out the last paragraph of Dr. Bob's story on page 181. To me, a man whose mind is in a place to say those things has nothing to teach me. Keep up the Good Work

RE: re amends

Corey, I am surprised at you. Surely you can do better than that. Manny Q.

Joined: 2013-02-26
Making Amends to Lkoved Ones

I think if your boyfriend and his 2 boys are still in your life & they say all is Ok, then it's OK. Be grateful they say that at least. I personally haven't done amends yet, but I think my actions speak louder than my words. All my family so very proud of me for not picking up for 16 mths now. Thnak you God & AA.


I tried to make some amends too early, before I understood the purpose of amends, and before loved ones were ready to trust that I was committed to the changes I was trying to make. What I have found, and what others have shared as well, is that the reaction of some to my amends was incredulity that I not only remembered but obsessed over something they had long since forgotten. Others expressed that the only amends needed was to keep doing what I was doing -- staying sober and trying to be a better person (do the next right thing). So if your boyfriend says it is okay, respect his wishes, including as regards his kids. I have found "living amends" to be the best way to make amends for my wrongs, since so many of them with loved ones were acts of omission anyway (like not being around physically or emotionally).

Re: Making Amends

Making amends is step 9, where are you with the proceeding 8? Of course we want to make amends to those close to us soon and rightly so. I’m sure that it’s a good thing that you did. For many of us pride (or false pride if you prefer) shows up in capital letters on steps 4 – 7. It’s OK for mere mortals to screw up but I’M BETTER THAN THAT. I shouldn’t have. I’m stronger than that. I knew better. The great I let them down. I’m so important that my screwing up destroys the lives of those anywhere around me. My harming is irreparable. I’m unforgivable.
Sound familiar?

Forgiveness is in God’s sphere, not mans. We make amends. That’s our job. People either accept or reject them. That’s their choice. Our result comes from our choice. Their result comes from theirs.

Perhaps you are looking to be repaid with trust immediately? We didn’t earn their distrust immediately, we worked at it. Perhaps you can be grateful for their tolerance until trust comes.

making amends

sometime takes iongtime make amends to people trust takes to build back to people people not ready except amend take time explore about your self make misstake our self only ament should take is you


You don't need advice. You need to understand what it
means to "make amends". You are changing. I believe that
is what we ought to be doing. Our loved ones worry about
us. We take away their peace of mind. In A.A. and sobriety
we learn to care more about others and think of ourselves
less often. Be mindful and considerate of the feelings of
others. Love AND tolerance. Both ingredients are vital.
Welcome to a new life in Alcoholics Anonymous. ANONYMOUS

Joined: 2013-02-26
Am only on Step 2

Short and sweet here.....I chose my sponsor because she seems as busy/ chaotic as me w/ kids, work, life, yadayadayada. She has 22 yrs sobriety, too. I rarely see her though except about 2-3 times, maybe less, a month between her schedule & mine. Have thought about finding another sponsor, but frankly, have not found one I can relate to & hate to hash out what all I have hashed out already. Is there anything wrong w/moving this slowly thru the Steps. I feel like I work all of them Daily though & I can call my sponsor anytime or others during tough times/days. I go to meetings about 4-5 times a week & read Grapevine & chair Grapevine meetings 1X a week & read AA books, too, everyday for a bit.Any comments appreciated. Thanks.

re: Am only on Step 2

When somebody online tells you that the easier softer way worked great for them, how do you know he didn't log in from San Quentin and gets his laughs trying to get us in a mess just like him? Those recommending "by the book" have a lot of hard evidence behind them if you need to check them out.

Joined: 2013-02-26
San Quentin response

Thanks for the reply, but not sure I understand your comment.Please explain a different way. Thx!

Am only..

Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, it’s easy for us to be lulled into believing that our disease will follow a predictable path to a point that it becomes obvious we need to take serious action. We expect some kind of “fairness”. In the last year I have heard, “I wasn’t drunk. I turned right from a stop sign, was lazy and let a front tire cross the centerline. Nobody was coming but the cop saw it. You know the drill. Got 9 months in county which lost the best job I ever had.” Another one. “I didn’t want to fight; I just pushed the guy away. Stupid drunk fell over his own feet and cracked his skull. My lawyer told me he earned his ten thousand dollar fee getting me off with felony and two years.”

Women don’t usually work their way down to a prison sentence. They jump. They still have a position in the community, a good job, a car, a house. She’s the treasure of the soccer league that can “borrow” a little when the ex misses a child support payment. She’s so good at her job the boss wouldn’t know what the books looked like if he ever saw them so what if she skims a little. If she got paid what she was worth she wouldn’t need to. A house that’s worth anything to hang onto, a car to crash. She’s not flat broke. With a little ATM cash she can help her friends get a little product they’re going to buy anyway and make a little on the side. Who’s to know?

The gal we visualize on skid row that “has it coming” likely doesn’t. She doesn’t have the trust, the job, the car, the credit cards to get herself into trouble. If it’s not her type that keeps the prisons full then it must be us and when we get out with nothing, we can join her.

Joined: 2013-02-26
Am only

Thanks for the reply, but don't follow your message at all. Can you try again please differently?? Thx! I must be stupid??!4@# LOL

What’s the big benefit of

What’s the big benefit of staying as close as I can to the edge of a cliff?

The choice between freedom to drive and the freedom to hire whichever DUI lawyer I can afford?

The choice of dressing up or dressing down today vs. wearing the collar of my orange coveralls up or down today?

The freedom to phone whoever I want and the freedom to call whoever will accept collect calls from the prison system phone? (Yes, local calls too)

The freedom to get a night’s rest if I want one vs. the choice between aiming vomit over the edge of the bed or spending the night hugging the toilet?

The freedom to lie to my brother or to my best friend why I need another loan when I haven’t repaid the last one?

The freedom to choose whatever I think will do SOMETHING for the headache without finishing the job of burning through my stomach lining?

The freedom to choose between the risk calling in sick AGAIN or risk going to work in the shape I’m in?

The freedom to risk having my car insurance cancelled or just keep driving around with the damage from the last wreck?

If you have written the first half of your first step, an admission of powerlessness over alcohol, you have several more pages of the above. Don’t forget the first word of the first step – We. Early in AA the founders saw our commonality. If I listen to the story of another alcoholic with an open mind, I begin to see that no matter how much farther his or her disease progressed, problems mounted, we think alike. What he has done, I will do. My powerless extends far beyond my own experience. Do I want to remain at the edge of that abbess? What’s the payoff?

Joined: 2013-02-26
What's the benefit of...

Not sure if you were replying to my Only on Step 2. If so I gather you simply think aI am moving too slowly thru the steps & am way too close to the edge of relapsing.Will think about getting thru the Steps more quickly in next few months, but as someone else mentioned..I do tend to vent/talk w/other psuedo-sponsers to get thru & some M&M's or walk my dog or go to yoga or go shopping for cheap stuff....for fun to pass thru some tough times.Have a good night or day!

easy does it...

It pains me to see some of the responses to your post by those suggesting you need to do AA their way. The AA slogan that comes to mind is "easy does it ... but do it." Sobriety is not a race, nor do you get extra credit for working through the steps more quickly. I thought perhaps I was too slow in working the steps (and in getting a sponsor) relative to others who came in around same time as I did, and yet many of them were unsuccessful in staying sober. The main thing I have to do daily is be honest with myself, first and foremost about the fact that I cannot safely take a drink. I talk with my sponsor infrequently (partly a guy thing) he is always there when I need him, and I have other "pseudo-sponsors" whom I see more frequently at meetings who can help with issues and/or call me on my BS. My opinion: there is no wrong way to stay sober, though there are easier ways, and I found that working the steps when I was ready to do so has made life on life's terms easier to do.

RE: easy does it?

One of the origional three slogans was "Easy Does It". To
add "but do it" distorts the meaning of the slogan itself.

Joined: 2013-02-26
Easy Does it

Thanks for your reply & that's kind of what I thought as far as going at whatever pace I go as long as I don't pick up & claim progress, though slowly, not perfection. Yes??

Joined: 2012-01-18
Re: Am only on Step 2

"I feel like I work all of them Daily though & I can call my sponsor anytime or others during tough times/days."
How can you be working all the steps daily and still be on step two?
"I go to meetings about 4-5 times a week & read Grapevine & chair Grapevine meetings 1X a week & read AA books, too, everyday for a bit"
One of the ladies who came in to AA in the early days said in one of her talks, "I can starve to death reading a cookbook." Stop just reading and start doing.

Joined: 2013-02-26

All the steps are a way of life....thru all of life's ups and downs....I make lists of who to make amends to, though actions speak louder than words far, everyone in my life are really happy & proud of my sobriety. I talk about my character defects to others. So..yes..I try & work all steps daily if even for only a few moments.I have people who want me to be there sponsor, but I say I can't, but am there for them if they realy need me I tell them w/a smile which hopefully my smile can brighter their day.
If I didn't work on all the steps daily or every few days...then I wouldn't be living in my opinion.I would be sitting on a street corner doing nothing when I KNOW ..
I AM NOT DOING ACTION...AM JUST GOING SLOWLY. Better late than never for me, I guess.have a grea day or evening.:))

Am only on...

Four meetings a week sounds like a good schedule to be on if two of them are at home with Bill W. That way you will have some clue about who’s blowing smoke and who’s walking the walk at the other two meetings. In 33 years I have never wanted to pick up a drink while reading my Big Book or 12 &12. Not once. Save gas. Save time. Save your life.

Joined: 2013-02-26
Four meetings a week

Thanks for your reply....thanks for your reply...yes 4-5 meetings a wk OUT at meetings & 2 other meetings w/my BB or 12 & 12 seem to be working super duper for me amongst other AA books. I forgot how much I used to love to read when I was I was drinking & driving & blacking out.

"Is there anything wrong

"Is there anything wrong w/moving this slowly thru the Steps."

No more than taking your time getting on a lifeboat on the Titanic. "...Remember that we deal with alcohol, cunning, baffling,, and powerful."

"I feel like I work all of them Daily"

The fourth requires filling many pages with writing. The fifth is reading them to somebody. Is that what you are doing daily? If you are, good! If you are not then you can't be doing 6,7,8 or 9 yet and you don't have a message to carry in 12.

Joined: 2013-02-26
Is there anything wrong

I work on the fourth & fifth slowly by writing in my iphone that's w/me anytime anywhere so not to carry a big journal....& discuss w/my sponsor or puesdo sponsers as need be...I feel all the Steps blend together & hear at times that people do the Steps over & me that means daily , a new way of life. As far as carrying a message..16 mths sober now..I think I have a message to carry & w/a grateful smile....I get it slowly but surely & am very aware of the cunning baffling part of the disease.I try & set some REAl goals like become a counselor after 2 yrs of sobriety sometimes..if only truely on Step 9 for example does that mean I should NOT go to school to become a counselor?? I think not. I want to live life & not sit on the side getting upset that I haven't finished the Steps w/my long as I strive for progress not perfection I think I will be Ok & always pray to God for another sober day & tahnk him at the end of my day,too.

RE-is there anything wrong

You asked, "Is there anything wrong w/moving this slowly thru the Steps." No, I've been sober since the eighties and never worked the steps. They are suggestions. Don't drink over them. We aren't clones in AA. The steps help some people and to others they are not important. Put, the cork in the bottle, seek goodness and love and you will be okay. The 12-Step program doesn't own the market on spirituality. Remember the path is easy but our minds are difficult.

anything wrong

You are saying quite clearly that you have mastery over alcohol. Lots of people do. Everything about Alcoholics Anonymous is about us people who are powerless over alcohol.

AA is a fellowship of every kind of person imaginable who has tried every possible method to simply stop drinking and stay stopped and failed without the program of recovery spelled out in perfect detail in all of our literature. Since you are not one of us please don't offer your advice here to those who's lives depend on AA's message.

RE-to anything wrong ...well yes your post

You stated, "Since you are not one of us please don't offer your advice here to those who's lives depend on AA's message."
The only thing I can ascertain from this is you are a newcomer and your program lacks open-mindedness. Its never a sober statement or an appropriate message to tell another alcoholic that they are not one of us. I'm a member if I say I am. Because my message does not fit into your simplistic view of recovery you assume too much. Please respect others on this site especially people who do not think like you. Live and Let Live

re re anything wrong

well said, well said. If you can put the plug in the jug on your own,then obviously you are not an alcoholic. The AA program is simple, 12 steps.

re re re anything wrong

You said, "If you can put the plug in the jug on your own,then obviously you are not an alcoholic" This is not true at all. We should never give this advice to another person. What logic is that? Some alcoholics can and do quit on their own. Not every alcoholic needs AA because of our moralistic approach to treatment. Being in AA is not the tell-tale sign of an addict. There are people in AA who aren't alcoholic but have a desire to stop drinking. I seen people go through heavy withdrawals with the DT's and just stop on their own. I personally like AA but, many people don't. In the same sense, I smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day for 17 years and just stopped one day about 28 years ago. Does this mean I wasn't addicted to nicotine?

RE: "Is there anything wrong

The alcoholic who carried the A.A. message to me was not
sober and never did get sober. The message is simple. There
is a Way Out. Don't drink and get to work. Read the Big
Book and the 12 & 12. Study the history of how this
solution was found. Get a real understanding of How A.A.
Works. You won't find it in chapter five. A better
explanation can be found in Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of
Age, Page 70. Or study "Rules dangerous but unity vital"
in Language of the Heart. Around page 8. ANONYMOUS

Joined: 2012-01-18
Re: RE: "Is there anything wrong

"A better explanation can be found in Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, Page 70."
"Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age" tells some of the history of AA, similar to "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers," "Pass it On," or Robert Thomsen's "Bill W."
The Big Book is our textbook.
No one ever learned auto mechanics from Henry Ford's biography. They learned from textbooks.
No one ever learned mathematics by studying the biographies of Archimedes or Pythagoras. They learned from textbooks.
No one ever became an electrician by studying about Ben Franklin's kite experiments. They learned from textbooks.
"Get a real understanding of How A.A. Works. You won't find it in chapter five."
Oh? In case you haven't noticed, the title of Chapter Five is "How It Works."

Step Three

Studying Bill's explanation of Step three in the Big Book, it appears that the step is actually
being taken. In the 12&12 ten years later Bill has reduced it to simply a decision to take the step.
I see this as a willingness to consider taking the step. Bill has opened the door wide open
for any alcoholic to join us. As in Step two a newcomer is allowed to "come to believe". Some
alcoholics may come in already "believing", but IMO they are very few. Most of us "come to believe",
but even that is not a requirement for membership in A.A. Bill wrote in "Three Talks" that
the only thing we require for membership in our fellowship is a desire on Her/His part to
get well. Bill and Dr. Bob worked with thousands of alcoholics in the ten years after the
Big Book was written. Surely, more was revealed "on the anvils of experience", after the Big
Book was written. Those revelations made A.A. more inclusive, closing any loopholes found
by the rationalizing mind of the alcoholic. ANONYMOUS

Steps Four and Five

I dragged my feet for years. I was so afraid to look at the 4th. I had no assets to counter the negatives in my life. It wasn't till I was in therapy for the last time, that the good things about this alcoholic came into view. The person I worked with on this step now had a whole person who could hold her head up high and look at the wreckage of her past. It was then that I was ready to clean house.

Living in constant fear, kept me from looking at my defects and sharing me with that person.

After the 4th and 5th step, I felt that I flew out of the cocoon of fear and became a butterfly. Every fiber of my being was lightened and the weight of fear lifted.

As the NIKE commercial say "Just Do It" you will not regret it.

Ann Marie C.

Try "THE" Recovery Program?

After my morning meditation today, I felt led to read this part of an article Bill W wrote for the grapevine in March 1960 titled “After Twenty-Five Years”. It can now be found in the book “Language of the Heart” under the same title or in the grapevine digital archives.
Our recovery Step Number One reads thus: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol . . .that our lives had become unmanageable." This simply means that all of us have to hit bottom and hit it hard and lastingly. But we can seldom make this sweeping admission of personal hopelessness until we fully realize that alcoholism is a grievous and often fatal malady of the mind and body--an obsession that condemns us to drink joined to a physical allergy that condemns us to madness or death.
So, then, how did we first learn that alcoholism is such a fearful sickness as this? Who gave us this priceless piece of information on which the effectiveness of Step One of our program so much depends? Well, it came from my own doctor, "the little doctor who loved drunks," William Duncan Silkworth. More than twenty-five years ago at Towns Hospital, New York, he told Lois and me what the disease of alcoholism actually is.
Of course we have since found that these awful conditions of mind and body invariably bring on the third phase of our malady. This is the sickness of the spirit; a sickness for which there must necessarily be a spiritual remedy. We AAs recognize this in the first five words of Step Twelve of the recovery program. Those words are: "Having had a spiritual awakening . . ." Here we name the remedy for our three-fold sickness of body, mind and soul. Here we declare the necessity for that all-important spiritual awakening.
If you can, read the rest of the article. I find myself re-reading these three paragraphs over and over.
Step 1, hit bottom and hit it hard and lastingly, often fatal malady of the mind and body—obsession to drink coupled with a physical allergy that condemns us to madness or death.
Then recognition of who gave AA our definition of Alcoholism, Dr. Silkworth and how that cart before the horse idea is entirely in step 1. Then Bills recognition that alcoholism is really a three fold sickness of body, mind, and soul and the necessity for that all-important spiritual awakening.
I especially noticed how Bill (the lawyer) wrote, “We AAs recognize this in the first five words of Step Twelve of the recovery program. I keep coming back to the “the” in the recovery program. What did Bill mean by “the” recovery program? Why didn’t he say the suggested, or one of the many ways to work “a” recovery program? I Get the sense that in 1960, the 12 steps “where” THE recovery program. What comes to my mind is what he wrote on the bottom of page 85 of the big book, “if we have carefully followed directions, we have begun to sense the flow of His spirit into us”. Those are Bill W’s words, not mine.
If you feel you are suffering from a hopeless condition of mind (mental obsession with alcohol while your not drinking that convinces you to take the first drink) a physical allergy to alcohol (you can’t stop once you start drinking) and a spiritual malady (increasingly restless, irritable, and discontent while sober), Try following the “directions” in the big book instead of the suggestions heard so often in AA meetings. It’s working for me the same way it worked for Bill W.


re- the The

Hi Corey, after reading through the posts the past week, I noticed your name appears a lot and the tone of your writing seems to be one of the expert variety. Although they seem to be long winded, there is a degree of sincerity to them which can't be denied. You also have a specific point of view in regards to what AA is. This is find by me but, try at least to have a little love and compassion for others who may think differently. Most of you comments come with quotes and page numbers and you seem to be defending yourself. Who is attacking you that you feel so passionately against to defend? I like different points of view in AA as I gather others do as well by the posts I've read. It helps me define what recovery means. I also grew up in AA and I don't have to defend postions out of insecurity. We all have the freedom and the right to discover the meaning of sobriety and ways of getting there. Who am I to force my beliefs on anyone even in recovery. My home group is cool because we treat all members equally whether they read the literature and books or find sobriety in eastern meditation and yoga. One woman in our group claims changing her diet has cleared her mind so much so, she is able to enjoy sobriety and has gotten active in AA again. I never met Bill W. and I don't know if I would like him if I did meet him however, I would accept his ideas of recovery even though mine are not exactly the same. AA is not his program it belongs to the living. Not all of us need directions and rules. Some just need the time and space to let alcohol leave our system and our minds to clear up in a way we can start making good choices on our own again. Thanks Corey, Its good you found what helps you. Sincerely, from John who cares about the new person as much as you.


Let me get this straight if I change my diet I too can recover from a helpless state of mind and body: alcoholism. I am sure no expert at anything but I know one thing: I am a real alcohoic as discribed in our basic text book and the only purpose any AA group is recovery from Alcoholism through the study and application of the 12 steps. There are no rules in AA because if I do not follow the "rules" I die! Yes John you can believe and say just about anything you want to in AA and it sounds as if you would like to see a more open-minded, free thinking, multi-faceted type of fellowship........Then go start one, leave this one as you found it. It saved my life. Don't muff it up. Virgil

re john

I appreciate your comments. If I or anyone else has given you the impression we are experts on AA or anything in this forum, I am sorry, as that is not my intention. None of us are AA experts. I usually post a thought or quote with a page number and reference to some AA conference approved literature, so anyone who reads the posts can easily research the posted information. I appreciate it when someone posts or shares and gives the citations or reasons for their beliefs, so I try to do the same.
I try to stick to the message as outlined in AA literature for a few reasons. When I first met my sponsor, he said the big book would protect me from him. It sounds funny, but I know what he meant. The AA program in the big book is what worked best for the most alcoholics since the inception of AA and variations of that program may work for some but maybe not the masses of chronic alcoholics.
We are obviously two different types of drunks. I am an alcoholic who left to my own devices has strange mental blank spots when it comes to alcohol. While sober, without the 12 step program of AA, my mind tells me alcohol won’t hurt me no matter what I know about myself as an alcoholic. It sounds as if you’re the type who needs a little time to detox and can continue to run the show with no problems. I wish it was that easy for me. I have found continued sobriety through persistently working the 12 steps of AA as best I can.
This reminds me of the old farmer eating a ham and egg breakfast. The chicken and pig were outside and the chicken was talking about how great it is to contribute on the farm. The pig had a different point of view!
Good luck and may God bless you in your recovery

RE - on John

Sincerely put, thanks!
You just taught me something about humility and
proved once again that actions speak louder than words!


...better ideas

I just picked up a new copy of a 12 and 12. Took the dust jacket off to throw it away and stopped when I saw across the top in red “A co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous tells how members recover and how the society functions.”

Say a young guy walks into a Boy Scout troop meeting, likes what he sees and starts going regularly but he has a little different idea about scouting. He doesn’t want to pitch a tent or learn how to tie knots. He doesn’t want to buy a scout manual or learn the oath. Cooking over an open fire and taking a chance on getting lost if he doesn’t pay attention to map reading don’t really appeal to him. He just wants to tag along and let somebody else carry the weight. Can you see where this is going?

I would be delighted if a group started using Yoga and diet or the power of positive thinking or psycho-cybernetics or anything else and cured more alcoholics than AA ever thought about. I really would and I don’t think it’s impossible at all. I don’t know the bits and pieces but I bet someone will figure it out. Unfortunately for a couple million of us, we tried everything else we could think of and couldn’t make them work for us so we’re AA members. So if anybody has a different idea, publishing a book today is as close to your keyboard. Write a book. Start a website. Spread the joy. Make up some rules. Rent meeting halls or talk church boards into borrowing their basement rooms and most importantly of all, think up a clever name for it because “Alcoholics Anonymous” has already been taken just like “Boy Scouts”.

Try THE?

The "cart before the horse "IDEA" Has absolutely NOTHING
to do with step one. The IDEA is to stop preaching the
"program" and become a living example of the solution.
without the preaching. ANONYMOUS

re anonymous

I could be wrong, in fact I often am, it sounds to me that you are preaching about not preaching?


Right on Brother! There are three things an AA meeting could live without and they are, PREACHERS, TEACHERS AND LEECHERS. In my observations, these are the most unhealthiest people in the rooms because they are using the program for selfish reasons and are masking their shadow side. Eventually the shadow will work its way into consciousness and this usually ends up in a psychic crack-up and relapse is not far away. For me to live in recovery I have to continue to face my demons which is the side of me most likely to succeed in destroying my peace of mind. I've never settled for the surface in life and I don't want a surface recovery. Fake will lead me to the bottle straightaway every time.

Joined: 2012-05-30
re cart before the horse

From what I have researched, the cart before the horse was Bill at about 6 months sober emphasizing the spiritual experience he had in towns hospital. That approch resulted in only Bill staying sober. Silkworth told Bill to give them the hard medical facts first, like Silworth had done with him, and then give them the spiritual business.
Within a couple of weeks, Bill found himself in Akron, Ohio about to get drunk himself. He found Dr. Bob and described his own hopeless case of alcoholism and the answer he had found.Then after about 3 years or so of trial and error with a six step word of mouth program they decided to put the formula that was working for the 40 sober, once hopeless alcoholics down on paper. Bill saw too many loopholes the alcoholic could rationalize in the six step program. He got more specific and wound up with the origional 12 steps.
I think the issue we have today is that even casual reference to the big book, steps, or higher power is misconceived as preaching. In AA,we ought to feel free to discuss the big book, steps, and our higher power as we understand them. If we find we are not free to talk of these three things in AA, we are not in AA any longer. We are in what used to be AA.
In my homegroup, we use the big book as the format for the meeting, so obviously we discuss steps and so forth. Alcoholics that have a desire to stop drinking come to our group, hear steps and traditions, and within a few weeks start on the steps in the big book with a sponsor. We have an incredible recovery rate. It works, it really does.

Joined: 2012-01-18
Re: Try THE?

"The IDEA is to stop preaching the"program" and become a living example of the solution.without the preaching."
Perhaps you would enlighten this poor ignorant alcoholic. If I show by example that I have found the solution to my alcoholism and someone asks me how I did it, how do I tell him without 'preaching' (your term, not mine) the steps I took? Telepathy?
I can't direct him to a meeting because they might pray, hug, chant, hold hands, read or pass out tokens.
If his illness is like mine, telling him to 'put the plug in the jug' or 'just don't drink' won't help him at all.

RE:More on the the...

Wasn’t “the the?” a band from the late eighties? But all kidding aside, well, you asked a valid question. You first shared, “Perhaps you would enlighten this poor ignorant alcoholic.” Why put yourself down or is this sarcasm? You also mentioned, “If I show by example that I have found the solution to my alcoholism and someone asks me how I did it, how do I tell him without 'preaching' (your term, not mine) the steps I took?, Telepathy?” My response would be there is a big difference between sharing your experience, strength and hope and preaching. Sharing ESH usually deals with humility and love. Preaching is ego-driven and selfish. It comes in the form of AA dogma, rules without logic and it serves only the bullies trying to define the AA pulpit. If the 12-step and big book variety of AA saved your life than that is your experience, strength and hope and if you share that, this is not preaching. But suppose you threaten me by telling me your way is the only way than that falls in the line of preaching. I know a guy that swears Jesus saved him in recovery and I respect that but, if he starts telling me that I must follow Jesus than this falls in line with preaching. Most of the preachers mean well in AA but, many of them are not healthy because they spend too much time studying the books instead of pounding the sobriety pavement. By telling others what to do is a way of avoiding problems in their own recovery. Anyone who acts holier-than-thou is usually the unhealthiest person in the room to me. Don’t you think there is more to recovery than reading books and preaching to people? I do. Thanks by the way.

Joined: 2013-02-26
Try "The" Recovery Program ..Corey

Thanks for your imput.....I like having directions for recovery. I personally call it the ONLY highly suggested directions. SO...
my higher power directed me today to read alot on Grapevine online after going to my 1st yoga class after several months of not. I feel great now, but...I admit...

I don't take as much directions on some days as others. I try though. Progress not perfection, RIGHT?

15 1/2 mth recovering alcoholic here. Now ...

think I'll go follow the brownie mix directions. LOL. Keep it Simple everyone...DON'T DRINK!

q@a on 4th step

hi everone i'm about to do my 4th step and have been told about a list of questions i can answer before i do the step. can anyone shed some light on this as most people i ask in the rooms have heard of them. those who have heard have no idea about where to get them
ive been a member of aa for 7 years 11 months 2weeks and have my first sponser so i want this to be the best time iv'e done the steps
dave thank you

Joined: 2013-02-22
4th step questions

You may be talking about 4th step worksheets and you can find these questions by doing an Internet search for "4th step worksheet." Many different sites offer them.
Ask your sponsor about his recommendation on the worksheets. Some people find them helpful, some do not.
My sponsor had to keep it simple for me and I did not use the worksheets, but followed the outline on pages 64 and 65 of the big book using the instructions there and through the end of that chapter. My sponsor had me do an inventory in the four following areas: 1) Resentments 2) Fears 3) Harm To Others 4) Sex Conduct.
He had me put four columns on the top of a page then make lists for each of the four areas above, beginning with resentments. For example, the columns for resentments were labeled: 1) I'm resentful at 2) the cause 3) it affects my 4) my part in it.
I first listed all my resentments in column one. Then I went down and did column two, then three, then four. I did the same for fears, harm to others, and sex conduct.
Finally, there are many opinions on how to do this and my opinion is just one. You will never do it perfectly. Just do the best you can and be honest and sincere. If you do that, more things may come up later. The fact that you are doing it is huge.

questions re 4th step

Not sure what folks in your locale are referring to. There were some 4th step "workbooks," for lack of a better description, that probably emanated from a treatment center (perhaps Minnesota's storied facility), that some of those with a couple of decades of sobriety recalled using. I found something similar online. It too obtuse for me, and I probably would have needed a psychologist to explain what the hell it was that was being asked, a regression hypnotist to uncover all the old stuff I really did not remember at the time, and about 3-4 years to uncover and process the rest. I do not personally believe that is what step 4 as outlined in the big book, or the 12 x 12, is all about. The 4 column list outlined in the big book, and the discussion in the 12 x 12 of what "character defects" means as a term of art, was sufficient to allow me to get a handle on my grosser defects and what behavior they elicited, and move on to the 5th step. Uncovering all the rest, including the minutiae, is part of the work of the rest of my lifetime. Happy trails.

4th step inventory.

The questions you need are around page 50 in the 12&12 book.
There are about thirty questions in all. Bill W. tells us
exactly how to take a personal inventory. There are some
tough questions. Some may not apply to you but many ought
to be answered honestly and throughly. If you are going to
do the step, you may as well do it as outlined by our
cofounder. I hold the opinion that the steps are done
because we choose to do them; not to appease or satisfy
a "sponsor". Manny Q.

re q & a 4 th step

the format I use is on pages 64-71 in the basic text for AA, the book Alcoholics Anonymous. I would start with that, and if your sponsor is not familiar with the 4th step as outlined in our book alcoholics anonymous, find one that is. This is only my opinion, if you are in AA and are willing to work the steps of AA, wouldn't you want to do them as outlined in the AA book? I know I do.

good luck to you in your sobriety.

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